Hazel Mills, the singer, songwriter and session musician has toured with Kylie Minogue, Florence and the Machine, Goldfrapp, and more. In this episode, Hazel — a long-time fan of the show — specs up an inviting but extremely remote studio and finds a series of new studio hacks that undermine the forever studio rules. This time, hear about how she balances session work with her artist project, how she prepared for touring with Kylie, and the time she got really into prepared piano. Expect deep studio geekery, plus and exclusive hint at her new “dystopian dance music” album.
Hazel Mills, the singer, songwriter and session musician has toured with Kylie Minogue, Florence and the Machine, Goldfrapp, and more. In this episode, Hazel — a long-time fan of the show — specs up an inviting but remote studio and finds a series of new studio hacks that test the forever studio rules.
This time, hear her stories of touring with Kylie Minogue, how she balances session work with her artist project, and the time she got really into prepared piano. Expect deep studio geekery, plus an exclusive hint at her new “dystopian dance music” album.
Season 8 of the My Forever Studio Podcast is supported by Audient, and the impressive new Horizon range of audio interfaces.
https://audient.com/
https://audient.com/products/audio-interfaces/horizon-range/
https://musictech.com/
https://tyxstudios.com/
STUFF WE TALK ABOUT (SPOILERS AHEAD)
https://stevereich.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musique_concr%C3%A8te
https://kentonuk.com/product/roland-jupiter-8/
https://uk.yamaha.com/en/musical-instruments/pianos/products/disklavier/
https://www.akaipro.com/mpc-key-37-g2/
https://reverb.com/uk/p/flea-microphones-47
https://reverb.com/uk/p/pearlman-tm-1
https://sontronics.com/products/sontronics-aria-2-valve-tube-condenser-microphone
https://www.neumann.com/en-gb/products/monitors/kh-80-dsp-a-g
https://atc.audio/professional/loudspeakers/scm25a-pro-mk2/
https://pmc-speakers.com/studio/pmc-6-2/
https://reverb.com/uk/p/roland-re-301-chorus-echo
https://www.eventideaudio.com/pedals/h90/
The reverb in a well (actually a silo) at BearTracks Studio in New York. https://youtu.be/bJd8606oNNk?si=P1z2451qeIWS71lu&t=431
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_cat
https://goape.co.uk/
Cate Brookes: https://www.instagram.com/catebrooksmusic/
Kylie’s Tension Tour: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension_Tour
Chris Barker:
Hi, I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts:
And I'm Will Betts, and this is the MusicTech My Forever Studio podcast, brought to you in partnership with Audient.
Chris Barker:
In this podcast, we speak with musicians, DJs, engineers, and producers about their fantasy forever studio.
Will Betts:
That's right, the studios that our guests choose are ones that they must live with for all eternity. But even in fantasy forever land, we do have some rules.
Chris Barker:
Indeed, our guests will select a computer, a DAW, and an audio interface. Those are 3 items that we let everybody choose. Then our guests will choose just 6 other bits of studio gear plus 1 non-studio-related luxury item.
Will Betts:
However— No bundles!
Chris Barker:
Yes! No bundles!
Will Betts:
Choosing something sold as a package of separate software or hardware as a single item is forbidden.
Chris Barker:
On this episode, our guest is a musician and songwriter who has toured the globe with artists including Kylie Minogue, Christina and the Queens, Florence and the Machine, Goldfrapp, and former podcast guest Fraser T. Smith.
Will Betts:
Yes, starting with a background in classical music, a passion for musique concrète, analogue synths and sampling, has led to a sort of rebellion against virtuosity and brilliant solo material.
Chris Barker:
And there's brand new singles and albums coming soon.
Will Betts:
But how will she find writing an album within the mercurial limits of the Forever Studio?
Chris Barker:
Well, let's find out. This is My Forever Studio with Hazel Mills. Hazel, welcome!
Will Betts:
Welcome!
Hazel Mills:
Hello, thank you!
Will Betts:
Thanks for being here.
Hazel Mills:
So happy to be here.
Chris Barker:
Mercurial Limits, I like that.
Will Betts:
Yeah, a little tweak at the end, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay, I hear you know about the podcast, so you know, and you've heard the rules there.
Hazel Mills:
I do.
Chris Barker:
Yes.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, it's a favourite of mine. I love it.
Will Betts:
Oh, okay.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, so really quite honoured to be here.
Chris Barker:
And are you prepared?
Hazel Mills:
I think, yeah, I have done some prep.
Chris Barker:
Okay, okay.
Hazel Mills:
But I didn't want to over-prepare because I feel like that could be a bit boring, you know?
Will Betts:
I mean, you know how we run this thing, so yeah, I'm very excited to see what you've got. But yeah, I notice you don't have any— there's no notes. notes. This is all just— you're going to freestyle it?
Hazel Mills:
I'm freestyling? Oh my God. But do people bring notes with them?
Will Betts:
Oh, people do bring notes.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, I am totally— wow, I should have done that.
Will Betts:
Okay. Yeah, no, I'm glad you didn't.
Chris Barker:
Well, before we get to build the Forever Studio, let's talk about your background. As we sort of mentioned in the intro, are you from a classical background originally in terms of how you learnt instruments?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, back in the day, that's how it all started for me. I started with classical piano lessons at the age of 6 and sort of went through the classical motions of taking grades, and then singing came into that as well, eventually choirs and some grades there. But I was all the while always listening to pop music, and also quite interested in just sound in general, like quite curious.
Chris Barker:
And when would you say you started finding sort of the joy? Or I mean, when you're learning something like classical piano as a young person, especially if you're listening to pop, was the joy going to play piano and then learning learning how to play the pop songs or—
Hazel Mills:
For some reason, I've got 12, age 12 in my head as a turning point of starting to really enjoy the pieces I was playing. And I don't know if that's partly to do with maybe I was playing different types of music. Like, I was never really interested in the very— the classical period, kind of chronologically speaking, but more interested in French Impressionist music like Debussy and Ravel. And so once I'd realised I'd found what I loved, I could enjoy it. But yeah, I also loved pop as well alongside that.
Chris Barker:
And were you learning that on keyboards to play songs and perform for your friends or like, oh, I can play that?
Hazel Mills:
Not until I was in my teens, I think. But actually, if I'm being honest, I was kind of really into rock music, the heavier guitar music. So I was like in a in a school rock band and sang a lot of rock covers as well as pop.
Chris Barker:
And when did the electronic side— when was like the first bits of kit and recording? When did that— because obviously as a singer in a rock band, you've sort of— you're not playing any instruments, you're not, you know, producing. But was there a moment where recording and electronics became important?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, it was while I was at university. I was studying in Birmingham, and it was a combination of when I discovered through my lectures, American minimalism, like composers Steve Reich and Terry Riley, but also musique concrète, so tape music, sample-based music, the French movement, but also the Radiophonic Workshop and things like that. Around the '50s and '60s era of tape music was a revelation to me. And I suddenly just started recording sounds and manipulating them and seeing what— like, just exploring those sounds. And so it was that side of things. But also, that was when I first had access to a DAW. And it was Ableton at the time. So it was kind of me learning what I could do there, but also learning a bit of history as well.
Will Betts:
Did you ever Uh, record to tape as well, or was it always in the DAW for you?
Hazel Mills:
I never have, right? But I— what I did get into, and it was partly due to the sort of Steve Reich minimalism style stuff, is I did a lot of live looping, which was almost as though it was a tape loop, and then building on those, building layers from that.
Chris Barker:
And that's the kind of point as well where music started changing for you between, I guess, notes to sound, if you know what I mean. Like, as in, like, yeah, that was the— that was the change.
Hazel Mills:
That's deep.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Well, you said earlier you were always interested in sound. Like, was it— had it been with you for longer than that, or was that the point?
Hazel Mills:
I, I think the reason I said that— so I've got these memories of I used to Like, because I loved a lot of pop music that had synths in when I was younger, but I didn't know that they were synths. I didn't know what they are, and I didn't even question what they are because they were this, like, otherworldly sound, and I almost didn't want to know at the time. But the other sort of way that I explored sound was I used to sit at the piano with my uncle, and we would free improv— like, just improvise. Random stuff, like sometimes quite atonal. And sometimes it— a lot of the time I do remember it being about the sound that was coming back at us and just being really immersed in that.
Will Betts:
Has that had much of an effect, do you think, that core memory on like the direction your music has taken?
Hazel Mills:
I don't know. But it's quite possible.
Will Betts:
Because I was looking at your Instagram and You were working with this— what's it called? Whimsical raps.
Hazel Mills:
The Atrium.
Will Betts:
The Atrium, yeah. And that felt like very improvisational. Yeah, I'm just wondering if there's any through line there between these 2 things.
Hazel Mills:
So I think the reason why I said I don't know is because I feel like I'm in like a rebirth, not to sound cheesy, of trying to remember what it was like to have that childlike curiosity with sound and not be concerned with playing the right notes or not making a mistake, which I feel like I've been too concerned with for the last however many years, like my whole career. And so I am really interested now in tapping back into that curiosity of exploration and maybe a world that is less familiar because that's not an instrument that I sit at and I go, oh yes, I know exactly what to do. Well, I'm more familiar with it now because I've been learning it, but it's not like sitting at a piano. So I, in a way, I think I've circled back around to that concept of just being free and seeing what happens and responding in the moment.
Chris Barker:
Because that's a challenge in itself, isn't it, if you're classically trained? to access music in the same way that, say, somebody that has no knowledge of music. And it's often why you find that in like hip-hop production or a lot of dance music production that is sampling and sort of collaging things together. It's that innocence and just trusting the ear. That sounds cool. Rather than going, oh, what key is this in? Let's find out the key of the sample before I can do it.
Will Betts:
Sometimes I wish they would figure out the key of the sample because when the bassline is Not in key with the— it really does my head in. I have problems with it.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Yeah, I'm gonna shut up now.
Hazel Mills:
Well, I'm kind of with you on that. I've definitely had situations where I'm like, okay, all right. And obviously, I can't go back and completely unlearn what's already ingrained in me. But there are certain scenarios where I've somehow been able to tap into, like, switch it off almost. And sometimes I feel like I can be more creative when I'm not led by, what scale is this? What key is it in? Or what's the rhythm? What's the time signature? What are these constraints? And just maybe notice it afterwards.
Will Betts:
How are you accessing that though? Because I think that's a tricky thing for people who are—
Chris Barker:
Will wants to be able to switch it on so he can listen to this one specific track.
Will Betts:
It's meant to be really good.
Chris Barker:
With an out-of-key bassline.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. But also, Think of the people with perfect pitch as well.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
I don't— yeah, I don't have that, and so quite pleased.
Chris Barker:
Well, there's people with perfect pitch.
Hazel Mills:
Sorry, that's a slight aside.
Will Betts:
No, no, no, it's funny because we had Jacob Collier on, and he has perfect pitch, and it was— he's very upbeat about it, but I think some people who have it find it kind of slightly nightmarish sometimes that you're constantly thinking, oh, that door squeaking is an F sharp, or whatever it is, or that just— it's in there.
Hazel Mills:
Although tracks also that are not at concert pitch for whatever reason, they might have been recorded to tape. The other day I was learning a song. I found out by playing along to it that it wasn't. And so I thought, okay, I'm just going to detune this piano sound by 50 cents or whatever, and it will be fine. But if I had perfect pitch, that would be driving me crazy, I'm sure.
Will Betts:
Yeah, yeah.
Hazel Mills:
Having said that, I feel like I'm delving more into the world more recently of embracing something that is slightly out of tune, not necessarily out of choice, but say with modular synths where I sometimes forget that I should probably tune it at the beginning of every pass or whatever. And then so I end up with something that's slightly out, but it also has an interesting character for that reason.
Chris Barker:
And it's why people love guitars and things like that as well, isn't it? It's like, it's just it gives it a sound. But I remember with the perfect pitch, was it Dominic from Goldfish? I don't know whether he's on our podcast or not actually. Dominic from Goldfish has it where even like hi-hats and like, you know, like things that we all sort of class as atonal, it doesn't— just everything's triggering him, so it all has to be in— yeah, it's a lot.
Will Betts:
It's kind of a curse.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we should start building the studio.
Will Betts:
I think we should, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Let's start with where you would put this studio in the world. I mean, this might relate to some childhood core memory. It often does.
Hazel Mills:
It might. So I'm in the forest.
Chris Barker:
You've listened to the podcast. You've just presented that like Will does for his rundown.
Hazel Mills:
Oh, have I?
Will Betts:
No, I like it.
Chris Barker:
You're in the forest.
Hazel Mills:
I'm in the forest. Let me paint a picture.
Will Betts:
Yeah, please do.
Hazel Mills:
I'm not so deep into the forest that I can't walk a little distance, and I can see— look out into the distance and see some kind of civilisation. So I'm not so isolated...
Will Betts:
Okay.
Hazel Mills:
...that I can't see some little town, maybe. And then on the other side, mountains. So I don't have a specific location, but I'm thinking it could it could be somewhere like Norway, like the west— western kind of fjords, but—
Chris Barker:
And just a specific strip of forest where one edge of the forest is seaside, yes?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, because I need to be in the forest. I need to have trees around me. And this is part of the whole tapping back into my childhood curiosities, because anytime you put me in the countryside, I'm suddenly like, More than happy to spend hours looking at sticks and being like, wow, look at this! And looking at the— noticing the differences and looking at trees and just having total awe for that. So I feel like being in nature is— and I just have a real hankering for that these days anyway, getting out of the city. So yeah, I'm in the forest.
Chris Barker:
Log cabin?
Hazel Mills:
There'll be a lot of wood, but it'll be like, I think, almost like a barn-sized thing. So quite high ceilings, lots of wood beams, wooden beams, lots of natural light, but with— now I don't know how feasible this is, but the possibility of covering up the windows so that it doesn't compromise the sound of the space if I need to do like recording in the space or mixing. But I want to be able to open them up as well for the creative times.
Chris Barker:
Kind of acoustic blinds.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah. There's actually a tiny house concept which slides open and it's got like windows on one side and you can sort of extend your whole house. It's all on rollers. So you could sort of upscale that to the size of a barn. You might need some Amish people to help you move it. You know, they throw up barns in like 5 seconds. Yeah. You might need to find—
Chris Barker:
according to The Simpsons.
Will Betts:
No, it's true. It's really quick.
Hazel Mills:
If I'm allowed, I will have that.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Or you can motorize it.
Chris Barker:
I think you've just upsold some dreams, Will. Yeah?
Hazel Mills:
Oh yeah. Do it.
Will Betts:
Upsell your dreams. Beautiful.
Chris Barker:
Perfectly in key as well.
Hazel Mills:
So yeah, that sounds good.
Chris Barker:
We're in a barn.
Hazel Mills:
Do that.
Will Betts:
It's a sort of barn frame, but with like big windows.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, it's a barn frame. However, there will be 2 upstairs spaces.
Chris Barker:
Mezzanines.
Hazel Mills:
This is getting a bit crazy, but you have to go up, but it will lead you to a walkway that will go into essentially what is a treehouse.
Will Betts:
Oh yeah, okay.
Hazel Mills:
And that will be my admin space.
Will Betts:
Admin in the treehouse.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, with the view. So it's like you're in the trees.
Will Betts:
Brilliant.
Hazel Mills:
To do the admin. But I also need a second one that is not associated with work.
Will Betts:
Second treehouse.
Hazel Mills:
Is this allowed? Am I allowed all this?
Will Betts:
Yeah, why not? Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
So yeah, one for downtime.
Chris Barker:
Quite Robin Hood-esque. One for admin.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, it's still very much an indoor space, but it's Built around— it's, it's also a treehouse.
Chris Barker:
Rope bridges between them, or—
Hazel Mills:
No, it will be like an enclosed walkway.
Will Betts:
Okay, okay, like a flight bridge.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
That's fine.
Hazel Mills:
Let's go with that.
Chris Barker:
I don't know why you're so shocked.
Will Betts:
No, no, this is great though. And the design of it, is it sort of a bit rustic, or is it quite modern? Like, what sort of look and feel do you want in there?
Hazel Mills:
Yes, all of it.
Will Betts:
Okay, great.
Hazel Mills:
So, um, it will be sort of rustic and country feeling with lots of wood and cosy rugs and lamps, but also quite clean and—
Chris Barker:
Scandi. It's got this kind of Scandi vibe.
Hazel Mills:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
Not too minimal, but yeah, basically somewhere in between.
Will Betts:
Comfy chairs. Comfy chairs.
Hazel Mills:
Like nice armchairs that you can sink into.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Okay. I'm getting a real picture of this. This is great.
Hazel Mills:
Okay, that's good.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Is there anything else you want to add to that before we move into your—
Hazel Mills:
One little thing.
Will Betts:
Yeah, what have you got?
Hazel Mills:
Somewhere in the forest, there's a clearing and it's basically a private, some sort of small body of water. I think some water to go to would be good. So I don't know if it's like a little mini lake or—
Will Betts:
Mini lake.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, the Norway vibe is sort of happening, isn't it? River?
Hazel Mills:
It could be a river.
Will Betts:
I'm not trying to upsell you to a river. I don't know if that's an up or down.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
What's better, river or lake?
Will Betts:
Yeah, would you—
Chris Barker:
I mean, who knows?
Hazel Mills:
For some reason, lake in my mind is a calmer concept. Why is that? Well, because river flows, goes to the sea. Yeah. What's the most realistic in this?
Will Betts:
Well, I mean, I found you a lovely place. It's called Andalsnes, I'm probably mispronouncing that horribly, but it is the mountaineering capital of western Norway. Would you like the icy cold waters of a fjord, or do you want to be sort of up in the mountains?
Hazel Mills:
I think I'd like them like further away in the distance.
Will Betts:
Okay, we need to reverse engineer that and find you the exact spot.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, sorry, I can't be more specific.
Chris Barker:
I think we can. That is pretty specific.
Hazel Mills:
Well, in that sense, but like in terms of location, I've done a lot of traveling in my job, but it's always cities. And I don't— it's not about that for me this time.
Will Betts:
So also, like, going to the forest and that being the dream. And where did you grow up? Like, did you grow up in a city or did you grow up like—
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, I grew up in a city.
Will Betts:
Right.
Hazel Mills:
Most of my life I've lived in the city and I'm gradually inching further and further away. Oh, sorry, from the microphone. further away from the chaos. But like my grandparents lived in the countryside and we often would visit them and go for long walks. So I always had that occasional access as a child. And I now just feel like I need that now. So yeah.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
Well, speaking of need.
Hazel Mills:
Oh God.
Chris Barker:
You need 3 free bits of kit. Now we have a computer, an interface, And a DAW. So let's start with a computer in your barn treehouse.
Hazel Mills:
So I'm a Mac gal, so I'll just go for the Mac Studio, highest spec thing.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
I think an M5 just came out, didn't it?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, let's go for that because that will also be good for— I do a lot of video editing, so if it can cope with all of that.
Chris Barker:
Oh, it'll cope. It will cope.
Will Betts:
I edit on a Mac Studio and it's pretty slick.
Hazel Mills:
Oh yeah, nice. Okay, cool.
Will Betts:
I'm gonna ultra-spec this while we talk about the other things and I'll come back to you with the most souped-up version.
Chris Barker:
So interface, what do you have now and what do you want in your dream studio?
Hazel Mills:
So I, for a long time, have been on an Apollo, Universal Audio Apollo. I think for safety and because I will need a preamp, I'll go for—
Chris Barker:
8P.
Hazel Mills:
An 8P. What's the difference?
Chris Barker:
P for preamps.
Hazel Mills:
Oh, right. Well then, yeah, definitely that one.
Chris Barker:
And DAW?
Hazel Mills:
This is the difficult one for me because—
Chris Barker:
You go between Pro Tools and Ableton, is that it?
Hazel Mills:
I do, yeah. But they're different stages of the process for me. Tell us about that stage. So I will often start in Ableton. That's the creative space where things are not linear and set in stone. You can still be really fluid with the structure and have, like, really unexpected things happen in that respect. But then Pro Tools is like, that's me saying I'm committing to this now. I'm going to stem it all out and—
Chris Barker:
So you stem out of Ableton and you use Pro Tools like a tape machine essentially?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, very occasionally I might start in Pro Tools, but often it's Ableton and then it ends up in Pro Tools. And sometimes I might do a lot of restructuring or changing quite a lot from that point, but I'll have already done a lot of the creative—
Chris Barker:
the initial creative process. And is that process born out of the fact that you take those Pro Tools sessions to other studios?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, I think so. And, you know—
Chris Barker:
Because you could obviously do that in Ableton. You could stem it and then bring it back into Ableton in a new project.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, so I mean, I'm just used to Pro Tools. I've been using it— well, weirdly, not as long as I've been using Ableton, but I feel like certain stages of getting music finished, I'm really familiar with in Pro Tools. However, on this occasion, I really am accepting that I'm going to have to take a real risk and just learn how to do those things in Ableton because I would not want to compromise on the creative aspects that Ableton can offer in terms of coming up with ideas and trying different combinations and different orders and things like that.
Will Betts:
Is there a world in which you could just, you could still go through the process of stemming everything out and starting it all in a new session where it's a mix session?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, yeah, because that's like a statement of, right, we're now into the next—
Chris Barker:
We're now in Pro Tools, but it's Ableton.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
How much of moving to Pro Tools is about being in Pro Tools, and how much of it is that you have the audio in front of you and it is fixed? Like, is it a technical or is it a mindset thing or a bit of both?
Hazel Mills:
I think it's possibly a bit of both, but maybe more mindset, but also the fact that I'm so familiar with Pro Tools for that. Like with Ableton, I only ever use it for the creative stuff. I've never— I maybe once finished something in Ableton at university for an assignment. It was a Music Concrete thing, by the way. But yes, I think it's a familiarity thing. But I can work on it.
Will Betts:
Yeah, you can work on it.
Hazel Mills:
I can work on that.
Chris Barker:
And now comes the trickier part, because your studio— let's talk about your current studio. Fair amount of kit?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So this is going to be a bit of a challenge, is it?
Hazel Mills:
Well, in a way, yes. But I also, you know, option paralysis. is very real. You know, I don't often have all of the gear that I have access to set up and ready to go at once, and I could do that if I wanted to, but I almost don't. I'd rather just have like combinations good to go. So in a way, this is just a combination that I'm committing to.
Chris Barker:
Forever.
Hazel Mills:
Forever. Forevermore.
Will Betts:
Forever combination.
Hazel Mills:
But you know, I'm a real advocate of limitations Meaning that you can actually be more creative rather than having all these different pieces of gear, only ever really learn on the surface. Whereas if you've got one piece of gear that you use for a year, say, or whatever, you really get to know it and you not just get to know how to use it, but you get to know how— what your relationship is with it and what your voice is when you're using it. Anyway, I'm just delaying the inevitable.
Will Betts:
I mean, if you had that, it sounds like you've had that experience, but with what equipment specifically have you had that experience with? Getting deep into the hang of it.
Hazel Mills:
Well, you know that I do a lot of work with UDO.
Will Betts:
Yes.
Hazel Mills:
Because I regularly have to present sort of certain aspects of their synths, not have to, it's a joy. I love it. It's just what I do. I, along with that, I'm learning, almost learning it more than I would do if I wasn't sort of teaching those aspects or presenting those aspects. And so I feel like over the years, I've really got to know all the insides and the little quirks and just, yeah. I do feel that way, actually, also a little bit with my Prophet 6. I know it now. Like, I've got a thing going on with it.
Hazel Mills:
I know it that well.
Chris Barker:
You've got a thing going on with it.
Hazel Mills:
That sounds really weird.
Will Betts:
You have a relationship with the instrument.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, that's really important.
Will Betts:
A working relationship.
Chris Barker:
Yes.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Me and the clarinet.
Will Betts:
I mean, what I mean is like, no, I understand what you're saying though. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Shall we get to item number 1?
Hazel Mills:
It's like an intuitive response. Anyway, yeah, let's do that. Sorry, we'll be here all day.
Chris Barker:
The MusicTech My Forever Studio podcast is supported by Audient, makers of the Horizon series of professional rackmount audio interfaces.
Will Betts:
Yes, the Thunderbolt 3 Horizon range is aimed at the professional studio market, comprising 3 interfaces: the Horizon 8P, Horizon 16, and Horizon 32.
Chris Barker:
5 years in the making, the range delivers 32-bit mastering-grade conversion, sub-millisecond round-trip latency, and a scalable architecture. Add units together and create up to a 200 in and out stack, all on a single macOS driver.
Will Betts:
Aimed at pro studios and audio professionals, that 0.99 millisecond round-trip latency at 192 kHz is fast enough to track through native plugins with no perceptible delay, no proprietary DSP chips, and no walled ecosystem to enable pro-level performance.
Chris Barker:
Plus, they look pretty slick too. The Horizon 8P 16 and 32 will be available from September 28th, priced from £2,199, €2,499, and $2,799.
Will Betts:
Visit audient.com for more information and to explore all the features of the Horizon Professional range.
Chris Barker:
Item number 1.
Hazel Mills:
Well, seeing as we're talking about synths, yeah, um, let's make it a synth. Yes, so I don't know if I'm allowed to do this. If you'll allow me—
Chris Barker:
Finger on the button, Will.
Hazel Mills:
It doesn't technically exist yet.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Hazel Mills:
But I've got a backup plan. Okay. All right. So you know how Sequential Circuits and Moog have both done reissues of old vintage synths with a bit of an upgrade with MIDI?
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
So the Mini Moog reissue and the Prophet-5. In my mind, this is a world in which Roland are doing the same with the Jupiter-8.
Will Betts:
Hmm.
Chris Barker:
Yeah?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
I think you can get MIDI conversions for Jupiter-8s. I think you can anyway.
Will Betts:
I'm sure you can.
Chris Barker:
Can the retrofits? There's only a few of the old synths that you can't add MIDI to, I think.
Hazel Mills:
Is it blasphemy?
Will Betts:
No, you can get one. There's a MIDI kit that turns your Jupiter-8 into— that puts MIDI in a Jupiter-8.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, I've seen them in studios.
Hazel Mills:
Really, money is the only barrier here.
Chris Barker:
In front of a studio, but no.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. Okay, that'd be great. Basically, I have a bit of a relationship, I think, I find with Roland keyboards. I played a Roland stage piano for ages, and I just love the touch. if it's got to be a not real piano, the Roland Touch, but also all of their synths. I just love the keybed. I love it. I don't think anything rivals it.
Hazel Mills:
Sorry to say.
Will Betts:
No, no, I kind of agree. Because the keyboard I had growing up was like a little Eddie Roll controller keyboard. And even those, it was like £80 or something. Really good. Like something about it just feels very playable.
Hazel Mills:
So that's Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So the MIDI is because that's your hack for as a MIDI controller as well?
Hazel Mills:
Well, both ways really, because yes, for a MIDI controller, but also I want the option of not necessarily just playing it. I might want to get all systems-y and sequence it and do interesting ways in that way, which Ableton is great for.
Will Betts:
Oh, so you're triggering the Jupiter from Ableton rather than—
Hazel Mills:
I could do. Yeah.
Will Betts:
You've got forever.
Hazel Mills:
I've got forever to do it. So yeah, yeah. So kind of both ways. MIDI and—
Chris Barker:
How strict have we got in the past on MIDI interfaces and things?
Will Betts:
Because, you know. Last time we decided it was so boring that we wouldn't talk about it.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. I just feel it could be a method to stop people constantly choosing the Apollo X8P. Because that doesn't have MIDI, right?
Will Betts:
Doesn't have MIDI. True.
Chris Barker:
Oh, interesting.
Hazel Mills:
Anyway, yeah, something to think about. Okay.
Chris Barker:
Still is boring though, MIDI, isn't it? But yeah, functional. Good. Okay, item number 2.
Hazel Mills:
So as we talked about earlier, piano was my way into music. So it's got to be a piano, but it will be— it'll have to have MIDI. It'll be a grand piano. A real acoustic grand piano.
Chris Barker:
We know the one. It's the—
Hazel Mills:
Disc Klavier?
Chris Barker:
Disc Klavier, yeah.
Will Betts:
The Yamaha? Yamaha, yeah.
Hazel Mills:
But I would probably also, because I would like to play it like a traditional piano, but also have the option of doing prepared piano. So what I might do is have some sort of layer that could be lowered down onto the strings. Rather than freestyling the objects, have something lower down that I can have already prepared. Is that allowed?
Chris Barker:
This sounds—
Will Betts:
We've never had it before, but that—
Chris Barker:
What's the lowering down thing? That sounds like a separate device.
Hazel Mills:
Damn it.
Will Betts:
It's no different really to having like a felt on—
Hazel Mills:
It's like, it's exactly that, but it will be— it can have felt, but it could have other objects.
Will Betts:
Such as?
Hazel Mills:
I haven't thought it fully through because I might need some help from an engineer, but, um—
Will Betts:
Like coins, forks, paper?
Hazel Mills:
Chains, paper, fabric, um, anything. Twigs, leaves.
Will Betts:
Oh, it's perfect. You're in the perfect spot for it.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, you could just leave it out in the forest with the lid open and see what happens.
Will Betts:
Be full of nuts by the end of—
Chris Barker:
Yeah, acorns.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Get a squirrel in there.
Chris Barker:
Prepared by autumn.
Will Betts:
Prepared by squirrels.
Hazel Mills:
That's going to be my next project, yeah.
Chris Barker:
But when you were saying like lowering it down though, you mean it's—
Hazel Mills:
So it'd be like, you know, in the way that the lid comes up.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, so it's always—
Hazel Mills:
It'll be another layer like that underneath the lid that also goes up and down.
Chris Barker:
So it's always prepared in the same way?
Hazel Mills:
No, but I can change how it's prepared and attach things to it.
Will Betts:
Is this something you've seen anywhere before?
Hazel Mills:
In here?
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
Could you just put Velcro under the normal lid, and then all of your acorns and your twigs have Velcro on, and you just lower them from it?
Hazel Mills:
I could, but I don't think it would go low enough to touch the strings.
Will Betts:
Yeah, you sort of need to have— yeah.
Chris Barker:
From the lid when you close it.
Hazel Mills:
I could do almost like an acoustic— cloud thing. It is attached to the inside of the lid, but it's hanging a bit lower.
Will Betts:
Okay. Okay.
Chris Barker:
Are you allowing this, Will?
Will Betts:
Do you know what? Just for inventiveness alone, yes.
Chris Barker:
Okay. All right. Okay. Yes.
Will Betts:
But you— do you want it to also play— be able to— do you want to be able to run MIDI to it from Ableton? Is that part of the— or would you play it?
Hazel Mills:
Like the Disclovia?
Will Betts:
Yeah. Does that have like a player mode as well?
Hazel Mills:
I'm not that fussed about it being a self-playing piano unless it's for the purpose of like, I've done a piano take and I recorded the MIDI, but I made a mistake. So I need to just run that bit back and slightly tweak the MIDI.
Will Betts:
Right, okay.
Hazel Mills:
So I guess I would.
Chris Barker:
So it's Disclavier with integrated prepared piano. And have you got prepared piano on material that's out or that's coming out?
Hazel Mills:
So I've got an EP that came out 3 years ago. That's got some prepared piano on it somewhere.
Will Betts:
And what were you putting in the piano? Because I'm always fascinated by— because there are so many things you can do with it, right?
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Do you have a plan or is it just pure experimentation?
Hazel Mills:
It's pure experimentation. I think there were a bunch of keys that were both in and played and just chucked onto the strings.
Chris Barker:
Not your piano?
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
We saw that look.
Hazel Mills:
When I say chucked, carefully—
Chris Barker:
Prepared.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. I don't remember because it was a long time ago actually that I actually did those recordings of the piano and then I've kept the sounds and kind of repurposed them often.
Will Betts:
Oh, cool. Okay.
Chris Barker:
So it's more about recording samples as such? And then collaging.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, well, I think it could be that and doing it on the fly, like as a take as well.
Chris Barker:
Item number 3.
Hazel Mills:
So on that note, samples.
Chris Barker:
I thought you were gonna say some keys. Like a bunch of jailer keys.
Will Betts:
Janitor's keys.
Hazel Mills:
Janitor's keys, yeah. An NPC A sort of MPC, but I— so at the moment I've got an MPC Live 2, and obviously—
Chris Barker:
So these are the modern MPCs.
Hazel Mills:
The MPC Live 3, I like the idea of, but I also like the idea of the keyboard version because you can't have too many keys.
Chris Barker:
The MPC Key.
Hazel Mills:
Are they basically the same thing but with keys?
Chris Barker:
I think so, yeah. Yeah, MPC Key 37 Gen 2 sampler. And workstation.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, so that would be my concrete device, basically, that I could use to sample and manipulate any sounds from around the space and in the forest and write beats with if it's that kind of project. And also vocal sampling as well.
Chris Barker:
And you're having it in red or white?
Hazel Mills:
I think the white one.
Will Betts:
I think that's reasonable.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Will closes the red one.
Will Betts:
I like the look of the red one.
Chris Barker:
I wouldn't have expected an MPC. That's an interesting choice.
Hazel Mills:
Well, I guess it's because it's familiar. I've had an MPC for a long time, and that's one of my go-tos for like just Sampling and manipulating and just—
Chris Barker:
And why do you find that—
Hazel Mills:
Doing on the fly.
Chris Barker:
Why do you find the MPC over Ableton, just going straight to Ableton to do the sampling and the triggering?
Hazel Mills:
The tactileness of it is something that I wouldn't have with just the software of Ableton. And there's so many interesting things that it can do now with sequencing and Like there's the probability aspect and things like, what did I find out I could do? Something motion. So it's in essence a round robinning, but a bit more kind of organic and fun.
Will Betts:
So slightly altering each playback.
Chris Barker:
Like polyrhythms.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. So it makes it, you're not constantly hearing the same thing each time and you don't necessarily know what you're going to hear. So there's that element of—
Chris Barker:
That's the probability. You can add a probability. little MIDI notes here and there.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, but also it might be that I hit a pad and that it—
Chris Barker:
Ignores you?
Hazel Mills:
It might just ignore me. No, that it doesn't necessarily make the sound I think it's going to make because it might go to a different sample or go to a different start point within that sample.
Chris Barker:
Okay, cool.
Will Betts:
Slice motion, it's called.
Hazel Mills:
That's it?
Will Betts:
Yes.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, thank you.
Chris Barker:
Slice motion, that's cool.
Will Betts:
Yeah, really cool idea, that. Okay, so you're sampling everything into this.
Chris Barker:
Making beats.
Will Betts:
Sampling your voice as well?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Is this something that you're doing a lot?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, it is.
Will Betts:
Okay. Why? What is it about sampling the voice? I think that sampling your voice is a really fun thing to do, but it's also because it's so unique to you as well. Like, no one else has that instrument.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
What is it for you though that makes it intriguing, do you think?
Hazel Mills:
That's a really good question because I couldn't pinpoint why I started doing it because I think I started doing it as soon as I started using Ableton, actually. As soon as I realized you could record something and manipulate it, I was like, well, here's an instrument, right? Here's a sound that I've got immediate access to. There's something really eerie and otherworldly about hearing a human voice, but it's not just singing a song. There's something different about it, whether it's because you've taken random samples and reordered them or processed it in a way that makes it sound not just like a person sitting next to you, but it kind of removes it.
Chris Barker:
The golf rap stuff that obviously, you know, that kind of— was it golf rap with the Will Gregory putting the MS-20 pitch input and doing that kind of stuff with the mic as well. And that kind of— yeah. A lot of the pop music influences that you've stated in other interviews and stuff, it's that kind of where they have that edge. And yeah, I understand what you mean with the vocal manipulation. It's kind of— and when you keep it poppy, but it's otherworldly, it's this weird, odd balance, isn't it?
Hazel Mills:
And do you know what else it does? This is something— this is a real thing for a vocalist, is that when your instrument is identifiably you as a person and you carry it with you, there's something really vulnerable in that. And so when you're just singing in your own voice, that maybe not all vocalists feel this way, but there's always that element of, ooh, ooh, ooh, you know?
Will Betts:
Mm-hmm.
Hazel Mills:
Does it sound all right? But when you remove it from that, it being a person, and it's like there's some vocal samples that I've manipulated and I've got some kind of rhythm going on or whatever, it takes away that element of self-doubt.
Chris Barker:
Well, let's lock in the MPC Key 37. Key 37.
Will Betts:
2, maybe?
Chris Barker:
2, 3, whatever the latest one is.
Will Betts:
Yeah, 2.
Chris Barker:
And then we're on to item number 4.
Hazel Mills:
Oh God. Well, so obviously with vocal recording, I'm going to need a microphone. So I've been using this U47 model, the Flea 47.
Will Betts:
Oh yeah.
Hazel Mills:
And out of all the microphones that I've tried on my voice, for some reason, it's a bit of a fussy voice. It can get a bit bright. Both really bright and sibilant and a bit woofy as well. And something about the U47 that it's just, it works. And although I'm using a Flea 47, I think I'd probably have to—
Chris Barker:
And why is the Flea just a clone, Wells?
Hazel Mills:
You know.
Will Betts:
To a real vintage U47?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, as long as I can maintain it all right.
Will Betts:
Forever Studio Tech.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
Who maintains all the studios that are created on this show. Yeah, yeah.
Hazel Mills:
No question then.
Will Betts:
Busy. Yeah, busy. Yeah, but all around the world and in space and underwater.
Chris Barker:
He's got a lot of fears.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So Flea 47 though, not a cheap microphone.
Will Betts:
Still not a cheap microphone.
Chris Barker:
Very good. How did you discover— I've never heard of the Flea 47, so I'm interested. How did you discover that? Were you just looking for U47 clones?
Hazel Mills:
It was recommended to me, and I went and tried out a bunch. So I tried that one and another Flea and a couple of Soyuz mics and recorded them all and listened back, and basically that was, that was the one.
Will Betts:
Did you try out the Telefunken U47 as well, the new one?
Hazel Mills:
No, I don't think I have.
Will Betts:
It's about It's about 10 grand, so it is punchy. It's definitely punchy. But you can get a pair for 20 grand.
Chris Barker:
Well, that would make sense.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. Am I allowed a pair?
Will Betts:
Oh, oh, oh, hang on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Chris Barker:
Or you can get 3 for 30 grand.
Will Betts:
Yeah, you get 3 for 30 grand.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, that's how that works.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
Bit of maths there.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Would you take one from history? Is there like any particular singer or any particular recording studio that you've been to?
Hazel Mills:
No, I just want it to work for me.
Will Betts:
Okay, yeah, fair enough.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. So vintage, here we go. Vintage Neumann U47, 1950s, nickel.
Hazel Mills:
Is there any going? Like historical ones going?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, just add it to basket, Will.
Will Betts:
I'll add that to basket. Yeah, I'll get that right now.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. £17,909.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And 31 pence. Actually, it's Reverb, so make an offer. Say you don't want to pay the 31 pence.
Will Betts:
You think that's the best way to go with that? Yeah.
Chris Barker:
It's good that it's free delivery at 17 grand, isn't it?
Will Betts:
I'll probably have to pay for insurance for that though, shouldn't I?
Hazel Mills:
Insurance is a bit steep. £50.
Will Betts:
Have you found any other mic that is not over 3 grand that suits your voice? You can't have arrived, first of all, at a U47.
Hazel Mills:
No, that is less than 3 grand.
Chris Barker:
I'd have loved it if you just said no.
Hazel Mills:
Well, I—
Will Betts:
This voice doesn't get out of bed for less than 3 grand.
Hazel Mills:
The answer is yes, but often they are not good for everything that it's like, oh, I'm doing a song that's a bit more like this, or there's a lot more going on in this track, so I might choose— so basically, I've been hovering between a Pearlman TM-1, which is also along the same sort of lines, I think.
Will Betts:
Pearlman TM-1.
Hazel Mills:
Which is beautiful. And it's really lovely on my voice when there's not a lot else going on, because it's got a lot of body.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
But also the Sontronics Aria is a really versatile one for me. I've been able to use it on a lot of things. It's just, it doesn't necessarily kind of make me melt in the same way as— it's just functional. I mean, it's not just functional, it sounds great, but—
Chris Barker:
For your voice, it was—
Hazel Mills:
Yes, it's different scenarios.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So do you still have all these other mics as well?
Hazel Mills:
I do at the moment. I've been meaning to sell, meaning to sell because You know, you can't just keep buying new stuff.
Chris Barker:
How do you find getting rid of kit? Like, it's hard, isn't it?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, I haven't done it a lot.
Will Betts:
Yeah, I know the feeling.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Well, let's lock in that microphone. Get that in, get that locked in. And then we've got 2 more items left.
Will Betts:
Vintage U47.
Hazel Mills:
I've done the hard bit at the end.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
So a bit of a dilemma.
Chris Barker:
Okay, between?
Hazel Mills:
You know, I need to be able to hear all of this.
Will Betts:
Yes, famously, yeah.
Hazel Mills:
Oh, this is really hard because obviously speakers are great and everything, but if I'm recording vocals, that's not very practical. I need headphones.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, we do allow little earbuds if you want, you know, your phone headphones you could use.
Hazel Mills:
Okay, okay, in that case, I'll have some speakers.
Will Betts:
If you bought a phone that came with headphones, that's the caveat.
Chris Barker:
Oh, right, okay.
Will Betts:
It needs to be a phone that comes with headphones.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Hazel Mills:
Yes, I did.
Will Betts:
Lovely, let's move on then.
Chris Barker:
I didn't realise there was such a specific caveat.
Will Betts:
I'm introducing this because I feel like it is a cheat.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. Okay.
Will Betts:
Mercurial.
Hazel Mills:
So speakers, at the moment I've got some very nice small, um, God, what are they? Neumann KH80s? Yeah, those are the little ones.
Chris Barker:
The finest, smallest ones.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, they're great. And I'm not in a huge space and I can't really make a lot of noise, so I don't—
Chris Barker:
But in your treehouse—
Hazel Mills:
But yeah, and I, to be honest, I also don't want it to be this massive crazy loud thing anyway, but I do want to be able to hear the low end. I'm not saying I want more low end, I just want to hear what's there. So I would need something that covers that. So something a bit bigger. I've used— I've worked in a studio a lot that's got ATC— are they SCM-25s?
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
25A?
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
And they're They're great, but I think I also need lower. I'm delving into lower frequencies at the moment with some of the stuff that I'm writing.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Hazel Mills:
Now, somebody did recommend these to me, and I don't know because I've never used them, but they are PMC—
Chris Barker:
The big full-range ones.
Hazel Mills:
6.2s. Does that sound about right? They look slightly unusual.
Will Betts:
Wow, yeah. These are big, uh, oh, they're sort of square-looking things, are they? With 2 drivers on one side and the other.
Hazel Mills:
I don't really know. I just, I, um, they were recommended and—
Chris Barker:
Little hexagon sort of beehive situation on the side.
Will Betts:
Nice.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Nice little nature touch for your—
Hazel Mills:
There you go.
Will Betts:
Forest studio.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
PMC 6.2 active 3-way monitors.
Will Betts:
A snip monitor.
Chris Barker:
That's £8,000. Well, they're on sale from £10,000.
Will Betts:
Money is no object.
Chris Barker:
Exactly. So they're £10,000 each. So you can get 2 for £20,000.
Will Betts:
Yeah, 2 for £20,000.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Yeah, that's good.
Hazel Mills:
I'm allowed to, am I?
Chris Barker:
You're allowed to.
Will Betts:
Yeah, those then.
Chris Barker:
And they're going to have low end. Wow. No doubt.
Will Betts:
They run from 33 Hz to 25 kHz.
Chris Barker:
So should be—
Hazel Mills:
33 Hz? Yeah, it'd be fine.
Will Betts:
Yeah, I'd be all right. How far into bass are you delving is the question?
Hazel Mills:
Well, I don't know. I've been coming across some problems in that I'm writing stuff that is down there, but I'm not hearing it in my current space without headphones. So that's fine. That will work. That'll do it.
Will Betts:
33 Hz.
Hazel Mills:
I want it too low.
Will Betts:
That's plenty low.
Chris Barker:
And that's when it starts rolling off, right? That's not just a cutoff.
Will Betts:
Oh, exactly.
Hazel Mills:
I high-pass everything below that anyway, so that's fine.
Will Betts:
Okay, perfect. Perfect. But you've not used these before? This is like—
Hazel Mills:
No, I haven't. It's a total gamble.
Will Betts:
Brilliant. That's what this is all about, really, honestly.
Chris Barker:
So we're on to the last item.
Will Betts:
We are.
Hazel Mills:
Oh, okay. So seeing as I can use my phone headphones, it's good. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
Which, I'm going to need some sort of effects item.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Hazel Mills:
I'm thinking something analog.
Chris Barker:
An analog effects machine?
Hazel Mills:
Just like a tape recorder. A Space Echo.
Chris Barker:
201 Roland, maybe chorus echo so you get a bit chorusy.
Hazel Mills:
Oh yeah, chorus echo, because I know I could go for something multi, a bit more.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, an Eventide or something like that.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, because obviously there's like— I've got an Eventide H90. Does that not count as a bundle?
Chris Barker:
No, it's one box, isn't it? One box is okay because I just like in Not the perfect style.
Hazel Mills:
In the interest of being like, feeling inspired by tactile things around me and not being too bogged down by menus and being in the box and being in the virtual world.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
I think I would be willing to sacrifice having lots and lots of options for having very limited options that are Just sound good and vibey. And maybe I can even double up my piano as some sort of reverb. I'm not saying I would modify it anymore, but if you have the pedal down and you make a sound into the piano, you get reverb. I mean, there's an option there already.
Will Betts:
So this is good because it works. So you angle one of your £10,000 PMCs into the— £45,000 piano and then record it with your £10,000 mic, £18,000 vintage. I think that's— it's going to sound— yeah, it's going to sound expensive. It better.
Hazel Mills:
No, I don't, I don't want that. I don't want it to sound— no, I don't care. Um, yeah, so that, you know, if I'm feeling limited with my—
Chris Barker:
You could have another reverb chamber treehouse.
Hazel Mills:
201, isn't it?
Chris Barker:
201 is not the chorus echo, that's a different one.
Hazel Mills:
301 is chorus echo. I saw that, but is that allowed? Does that not count as an item, having a chamber?
Will Betts:
No one's ever asked, actually, I don't think, have they?
Chris Barker:
Why can't you have a treehouse?
Will Betts:
It's just another room.
Chris Barker:
Tiled treehouse.
Will Betts:
Just another room.
Hazel Mills:
I'll have a chamber then as well.
Will Betts:
Oh my God.
Hazel Mills:
Okay, thank you.
Chris Barker:
Right, okay, sold the dream there.
Hazel Mills:
God, you're so generous.
Chris Barker:
A tiled treehouse reverb chamber.
Will Betts:
I feel like we're—
Chris Barker:
what you need.
Hazel Mills:
What was it?
Chris Barker:
What was that studio in, in the States that had a cave and the mic was on a winch and they could lower—
Will Betts:
Down a well?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, down a well and they could lower—
Hazel Mills:
Yeah!
Chris Barker:
They could— they had a speaker at the bottom of the well that was plumbed into the studio so you could have it on a send and then you could lower the microphone up and down on the well so you had a natural reverb in that well.
Hazel Mills:
Where is this?
Will Betts:
I just like the thought of it. My Google-fu is terrible today.
Chris Barker:
It's so hard to Google anything now.
Will Betts:
It's in the US, isn't it? I know exactly, it was in that Focusrite documentary about the—
Chris Barker:
Amazing though. Like, yeah, well, and they can, from the desk, they can motorize the mic to go closer or further away from the speaker down the well. Very cool. But you could do that in your treehouse.
Hazel Mills:
Oh my God. Yeah. I'm surprised I didn't think of that because like a couple of years ago, I suddenly got really very temporarily obsessed— wait, maybe not obsessed— interested in caves. Being in caves. Can I have a cave? No, let's just—
Will Betts:
We need to really, I think, we can find a spot, but you probably need to be closer to the mountains.
Hazel Mills:
Also, I need a separate speaker for it. I can't just keep carrying my—
Will Betts:
Well, you think no cave?
Hazel Mills:
Limits?
Will Betts:
No to cave, yes to tiled echo chamber in your—
Hazel Mills:
Oh, yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah, okay.
Hazel Mills:
That seems more practical.
Chris Barker:
Right, Will, run us through.
Will Betts:
We're in the forest, but not so far into the forest that you don't have a view on one side of a cute little town, a Norwegian town, and on the other side, mountains. You're inside a barn structure With high ceilings, wooden beams, lots of natural light, with a bespoke system for covering up the windows for when you want to record. You have 2 upstairs walkways to separate treehouses from the barn, one for admin, one for downtime. And the vibe inside the studio is very cosy, sort of hygge, Scandinavian cosy rugs, lamps.
Chris Barker:
Mm.
Will Betts:
And then when you're in your treehouse, you can also see in the distance a beautiful lake. And you have a tiled reverb chamber. This is a very well-conceived studio. And in it, you have your free items, a Mac Studio, 36-core CPU with 80-core GPU and 256 gigabytes of memory. You have for your interface an Apollo X8P. Your DAW is Ableton Live 12 Suite. And for your items, you have for a synth the Roland Jupiter-8 with a MIDI mod. For a piano, a Yamaha Disklavier with an integrated prepared piano of your own design.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. System.
Will Betts:
You have the MPC Key37 G2. For a mic, you have a vintage Neumann U47. Your speakers are a pair of PMC 6.2 active 3-way monitors, and your final item is in effect the Roland RE-301 chorus echo.
Chris Barker:
How does that sound?
Hazel Mills:
That sounds dreamy.
Will Betts:
I want to go to the studio.
Hazel Mills:
I'm excited to start. Let's go.
Will Betts:
Let's do it.
Chris Barker:
Well, Before we go, you've got one more luxury item. Oh yeah.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
What are you going to have? I feel like you've done all the luxury now. What could you possibly want else than this?
Hazel Mills:
Well, do you know what's interesting? I had like 3 floating around my head because I just can't choose. But, and I saw 2 of those this morning on the way here. One of them is also, you You wouldn't. So one of them is a— and the third one, I think, because I didn't see it this morning, I think it's probably— and it's the least practical. It's probably out for that reason. Shall I tell you what that one is first?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, tell us them all.
Will Betts:
I'm gunning for unreasonable ideas.
Hazel Mills:
It's a cat café.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
That's good.
Will Betts:
Yes, okay.
Chris Barker:
Run by cats or with cats?
Hazel Mills:
It's run— yeah, not run by cats. As in—
Chris Barker:
There'd never be any milk.
Hazel Mills:
You know, have you been to a cat café before?
Will Betts:
Very good. Very good.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. You ever been to one? It's a thing. Yes.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, I've walked past one in Birmingham.
Hazel Mills:
Well, I figure it wouldn't be practical because they'd— it would just be there for me because I don't want lots of people around. So I don't— it's not like a public place.
Chris Barker:
Um, so it's more like a cat prison, really.
Will Betts:
That's not great.
Hazel Mills:
In which case, let's definitely—
Chris Barker:
You call it a cafe, but it's just a room full of cats. Well, you sometimes go with cats.
Will Betts:
One musician's cafe is another musician's Cat prison.
Hazel Mills:
No, that's what I needed to hear.
Will Betts:
It's definitely out.
Chris Barker:
Okay, great.
Will Betts:
Strike it.
Hazel Mills:
The other one is like an adventure playground for adults, like with zip slides, but lots of like wooden structures and climbing frames and things.
Chris Barker:
Like a go away room, like it's adults.
Hazel Mills:
It's just, it's not tiny. Like, do you know how, you know, if you're in a playground and you're like, let's climb up this thing.
Chris Barker:
I don't know.
Hazel Mills:
But it's about this small.
Will Betts:
I'm constantly getting stuck in slides myself.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, so it's big enough— Not again!
Chris Barker:
Will's in the tube!
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, it's got— it's big enough for somebody who's as tall as I am. So there was that, but then the other one was more related to the cat thing, but more specifically a Bengal cat. And I saw one this morning.
Chris Barker:
Okay, so just the cat? Is that your— you're allowed to pet, that's a luxury, actually.
Hazel Mills:
I mean, you can.
Chris Barker:
But do you have a Bengal cat?
Will Betts:
No.
Chris Barker:
Okay, then it would be a luxury to have one.
Will Betts:
I mean, you could get one before you move and then you can free up your luxury item. But why Bengal cat? What specifically is it about Bengal cats?
Hazel Mills:
Well, I keep passing them near where I live. And I say them because at first it was like, oh, there it is again.
Will Betts:
Hey.
Hazel Mills:
Oh, hang on a minute. You're not the same one. I think there's at least 3 within the space of a similar area.
Chris Barker:
A Bengal cat cafe.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Oh, hello.
Hazel Mills:
I just love them. They're so forthcoming and lovely. And I love cats.
Will Betts:
So you don't have a cat right now?
Hazel Mills:
I don't have a cat right now.
Will Betts:
But cat person?
Hazel Mills:
There is a plan.
Chris Barker:
So the luxury item is either—
Will Betts:
Is this the plan?
Hazel Mills:
No, no. I have no idea what the plan is in real life, but— or current life. So yeah. I don't know. So you're saying I could just have a cat anyway and go for the playground?
Will Betts:
You're cool.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, let's go for the playground.
Will Betts:
So you're going to have basically, you're going to be in a forest and you're going to have a Go Ape next door, basically?
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
That sounds sick, actually. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Yep.
Will Betts:
We've never had like a grown-up playground before.
Chris Barker:
No.
Hazel Mills:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Well, yeah.
Chris Barker:
I've now seen the Bengal cat on your screen. Well, very, very beautiful cats.
Will Betts:
They look like wild animals as well. They look very sort of wild.
Hazel Mills:
Oh, but I'll have one anyway, so it doesn't matter.
Chris Barker:
Yep, there you go. Well, lock in that luxury item, and that is your completed forever studio.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, it sounds great. Can't wait.
Chris Barker:
Okay, well, we'll get on it.
Will Betts:
We'll get on it. And what's coming next for you then, Hazel?
Hazel Mills:
Um, I've got some music coming out. Um, I've got 2 albums finished and good to go.
Chris Barker:
Amazing.
Hazel Mills:
One of them is like, it's an instrumental. I'm going to have a go at describing it. And I don't know if this is the right term to use, but I'm going to say it anyway, dystopian dance music.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Hazel Mills:
It's got like kind of early Detroit techno influences, but also a lot of synthscapes, the kind of stuff that people might have heard from me before, vocal textures, music concrete beats, all of that in one. So that's coming out. The album is looking like it might come out March of next year, but I'll have some singles coming out from January.
Chris Barker:
Cool.
Hazel Mills:
And yeah, and there's another record that is completely different from that, and that's a collaboration with artist Kate Brooks. And it's something that started during one of the lockdowns, actually, and all of it was done remote from one another. And she and I have only ever met in person once. So it was like a virtual back and forth. And that's more like— that's songs, but it's quite sort of ethereal and expansive and nostalgic synthesizers and drum machines.
Chris Barker:
I was lucky enough to have a sneak peek of both of these, and I think your descriptions Does that make sense?
Hazel Mills:
Good. Okay, cool.
Chris Barker:
But I will say the first one, it's not abstract or alienating. It's musical without being overly musical, as we've discussed previously. But it's like when you say dystopian, it's not inaccessible.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah. Well, it's because my tendencies towards pop and pop structure are always going to come out in what I do, and they sort of have there, even though it's not pop at all.
Chris Barker:
No, it's definitely not pop and it's definitely what you said.
Hazel Mills:
There's like a certain structure.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Will Betts:
But what's dystopian about it? I don't—
Hazel Mills:
Well, maybe that's just in my head that what I'm picturing in my mind.
Chris Barker:
It's got a dullness and a bleakness to the sound.
Hazel Mills:
The sort of setting of it. There's a kind of retro-futuristic element sonically. And it's almost as though if like the BBC Radiophonic Workshop and Like '90s techno and minimal techno had come together and started scoring films.
Chris Barker:
Yes. Yeah.
Will Betts:
What were you seeing in your head when you were making this? Did you have like a visual in mind?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, I'm sort of picturing like an overgrown urban— I'll say landscape, even though it's like urban. Brutalist architecture.
Chris Barker:
Like a brownfield site in Berlin.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, yeah, that's a good reference.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
And it's not— there are people, they live there, and they're having a good time. So it's sort of dystopian.
Will Betts:
Just like Berlin.
Hazel Mills:
It's dystopian, but people live here.
Chris Barker:
Look at the place.
Will Betts:
Who would have thought?
Hazel Mills:
Exactly. But there's also like a kind of ancient magical element to it as well.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Oh, I'm very excited to listen to that. That sounds great.
Hazel Mills:
Oh, cool.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And how do you balance like making music and solo projects with your session work? Have you got session work booked? Because obviously you played with Kylie and GolfRap and huge acts. That is a massive responsibility. Not just on stage, but in terms of your schedule. I guess when you're touring, you're not finding any time to make music, right?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, correct. Sometimes I have these grand ideas of being like, well, I'm on the road and there's a lot of waiting around so I can write, but it often doesn't work out. So I have, you know, since the Kylie tour last year, I've had more— I've basically been taking on more studio-based session work. and really enjoying that because there's still a little bit of travel now and then. A lot of it I can do from home or my forever studio.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
And I love traveling, but I'm also quite a— I'm a bit of a hermit, an introvert. And so being in the same place for a longer period of time feels good to me. If something came along, I probably wouldn't say no. But I Yeah, sorry, that's not what you asked. But in terms of finding time to write, I have found that time in the last year. I've had that time to actually finish, go, right, let's finish this project.
Chris Barker:
But also as a career, the balance, like, you know, jobbing musicians, we all have to pay bills and do all of that. But in terms of like, do you find yourself How do— am I trying to build Hazel Mills the artist or Hazel Mills the session musician? Because obviously once you've done Kylie and Goldfrapp and stuff, you could be at that elite— that's like, you know, top-end session musician work for touring. You could do that constantly in theory if you wanted to. But then that would be— no, but as in like you could ask for it, you'd be in that world.
Hazel Mills:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
But then it would maybe be at the the damage to your— the Hazel Mills, the artist.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, well, that's the ultimate sort of struggle because I have to do those things. I love doing those things, but I also have to pay the bills. But this is where this new project has come at a good time. The album that's coming out was commissioned by Audio Network, the production house. And so this is like both of those things coming together, the sort of, it's a job and it's my creative outlet, are both coming together.
Will Betts:
Brilliant.
Chris Barker:
And have you got session work? Have you got more tours booked in that you can talk about?
Hazel Mills:
Tour? Not full tours, but I've got sort of one-off gigs coming up. Yes, I can mention one. There's a thing coming up with the Will Gregory Moog Ensemble, so the other half of Goldwrap, his His synth ensemble. Yeah, we're doing something at Halloween.
Chris Barker:
Okay, spooky. So yeah, will there be dressing up involved?
Hazel Mills:
I hope so. I don't know, I'll put it to him.
Chris Barker:
I thought you were just gonna say, I will. Just you in the whole ensemble. Yes, yeah, I think that's—
Hazel Mills:
yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. So yeah, there's that coming up, and I've got some other sort of studio-based things that I'm not allowed to talk about.
Chris Barker:
And does all the session stuff just come from word of mouth, I guess? Like, is that just—
Hazel Mills:
Pretty much, yeah.
Chris Barker:
So what was that like, getting Kylie?
Hazel Mills:
Oh, well, that was interesting because the musical director, Steve Anderson, he knew of me through— he'd seen me play with Goldfrapp, so he knew of me before, but he kind of connected with me on Instagram. So it's one of those things where, oh, social media has come through for something.
Chris Barker:
It works.
Hazel Mills:
But yeah, we basically connected on Instagram and both said, it'd be cool to work with each other one day. Love what you do, blah, blah, blah. Left that hanging in the air. And then maybe a year or more later, I got a call from him, or he was like, can we— are you free for a chat? And I thought, oh, cool. So We'll work together. Probably not going to be the Kylie thing though. But it was.
Chris Barker:
And so when you play with Kylie, is it outfits? Is it the whole thing?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, it's the whole thing. Dancers, outfits, stage moving while you're playing, lots of cool lights, everything. Oh yeah.
Chris Barker:
And what's the rehearsal time like before your first gig? Like how long do you get?
Hazel Mills:
So we had— I can't remember exactly, but we had like 5 days in London, just the band without her, because the band were all UK-based. And then we had— it was either 2 or 3 weeks at the sort of beginning of the tour over in Melbourne, Australia, because it started in— I think it was Perth was the first date. And sort of somewhere along the line, the dancers were in the same building in a separate space doing their rehearsals, and she was kind of going between. And then at one point, we all came together.
Chris Barker:
And is that with the moving stages and things as well?
Hazel Mills:
Oh, no. So we didn't have any of that at that point. That wasn't until we were in a venue. So this was just a rehearsal space.
Chris Barker:
So soundchecks are the first time you have you get to— I can't assume you remember that. It's a big deal, isn't it? Like, oh, we're all sorted. What, it's gonna—
Hazel Mills:
I'm sure we must have had a production rehearsal in the venue that we start. There must have been. I just can't remember, um, because it's a lot to get used to.
Chris Barker:
Yes, exactly.
Hazel Mills:
It's higher up than I've ever been. Like, in terms of— I've been on risers before, but you can normally step onto them. Whereas this one, there are steps That go up.
Will Betts:
Wow.
Hazel Mills:
And not only that, and I'm right on the edge of it, but there are moments within the show where they move while you're playing. So we have like somebody talking in our ear saying, giving us the warning so we can like brace ourselves and still carry on playing when they start moving and make it look like really smooth. There was actually one time where the guitarist who is next to me on the riser, he didn't hear the warning and he properly— if there weren't people standing on either side of him, he probably would have been down. He was like, poof, whilst playing guitar. I love moments like that though.
Chris Barker:
A final question I've got along that, sorry, is choosing the kit you take. Do you have spec limits? in terms of like you can only take this much stuff? How do you choose what to take?
Hazel Mills:
Well, there was a bit of freedom in that sense to an extent, but it also had to look a certain way. So basically, as long as it could fit on this one craftwork-style platform, I could have it.
Chris Barker:
That's what I mean, you couldn't have like big stacked keyboards and stuff behind you.
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, but that actually made it a bit of a challenge for me because I needed a full-sized, fully weighted keyboard. I had that and I had a UDO Super 6 above it, so stacked, tiered, and then pedals within that. But because it's such a big heavy keyboard on one kind of middle platform, that not only was the riser moving, but the keyboard also—
Chris Barker:
Yeah, it would go right down the bottom octave or the top octave.
Hazel Mills:
So sometimes it would move from underneath my fingers. And so that was all something completely new for me to get used to. But fun.
Chris Barker:
Are there moments where you have to lock in and dance with everybody in terms of just basic side to sides or things like that?
Hazel Mills:
We didn't have to.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Hazel Mills:
But I did.
Chris Barker:
I mean, it's musical theatre.
Hazel Mills:
Like, I learned some of the choreography, like, because the backing vocalists do that a lot. And that's part of their job. They're moving around with her all the time. And so they do have to do a lot of the choreography. And because I was also singing backing vocals, I thought, well, I can tap in. I'm kind of in that world as well. So I will do some of the choreography providing I can do it while still playing. So I did.
Hazel Mills:
I worked it around that.
Will Betts:
Was that something you'd done before? Was that like—
Hazel Mills:
No. No.
Will Betts:
So the first time was on tour with Kylie?
Hazel Mills:
Yeah, I think so.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
I can tell by your face you really enjoyed the experience.
Hazel Mills:
I did. It's fun.
Chris Barker:
Sounds incredible. Sounds really good. I was really intrigued by how that whole world works because it's not something that we've ever been part of. Yeah, same. Yeah, amazing. Well, all that's left to do is say thank you so much for coming on the My Forever Studio podcast.
Will Betts:
Thank you, Hazel.
Hazel Mills:
Thank you so much for having me. I had a lovely time.
Chris Barker:
Well, what a complete vision of a studio there from Hazel.
Will Betts:
So complete. I really had a picture in my head exactly of what it was.
Chris Barker:
Yes.
Will Betts:
Well, all that's left to say is thanks so much for listening, and we'll catch you next time for another adventure into Studio Foreverdom. Bye-bye.
Chris Barker:
Bye-bye.