With a career spanning nearly 40 years, legendary producer Howard Benson has shaped the sound of everyone from Less Than Jake and P.O.D. to Bon Jovi and Kelly Clarkson. Tune in to hear Howard’s fiercely pragmatic view on the most important part of any production, confessions about the impossibly rare synths he lusts after, and the secret behind monitoring through humble $79 speakers. Along the way, discover his thoughts on AI’s musical future, why demo-itis is every producer’s enemy, and which ultra-luxe item he’d demand for his Forever Studio setup.
With a career spanning nearly 40 years, legendary producer Howard Benson has shaped the sound of everyone from Less Than Jake and P.O.D. to Bon Jovi and Kelly Clarkson. Tune in to hear Howard’s fiercely pragmatic view on the most important part of any production, confessions about the impossibly rare synths he lusts after, and the secret behind monitoring through humble $79 speakers. Along the way, discover his thoughts on AI’s musical future, why demo-itis is every producer’s enemy, and which ultra-luxe item he’d demand for his Forever Studio setup.
Season 7 of the My Forever Studio Podcast is supported by Audient, and the incredible new iD48 audio interface.
https://audient.com/
https://audient.com/products/audio-interfaces/id48/overview/
https://musictech.com/
https://tyxstudios.com/
STUFF WE TALK ABOUT (SPOILERS AHEAD)
https://www.viperroom.com/
https://www.sunsetsound.com/
https://www.discogs.com/artist/255617-Pretty-Boy-Floyd
https://www.discogs.com/artist/255060-TSOL
https://imotorhead.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Count_(album)
https://tigresounds.com/compass-point-the-caribbean-recording-studio-that-redefined-80s-groove/
https://www.vintagesynth.com/moog/synthesizer-1c2c3c
https://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/gx-1
https://www.vintagesynth.com/arp/2600
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=0718-AAI
https://www.korg.com/uk/products/synthesizers/voxcontinental/
https://guitar.com/features/oral-history-rickenbacker-12-string/
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40538677-the-birth-of-loud
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Emerson
https://www.avid.com/products/pro-tools-mtrx-studio
https://musictech.com/reviews/yamaha-ns-10/
https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/studio-microphones/c-800g
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Macintosh_7600
https://musictech.com/news/music/roy-thomas-baker-producer-bohemian-rhapsody-dies/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Davis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_B%C3%B6sendorfer
https://joeysturgistones.com/products/howard-benson-vocals
Chris Barker [00:00:02]:
Hi, I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts [00:00:04]:
And I'm Will Betts and this is the Music Tech My Forever Studio podcast brought to you in partnership with Audient.
Chris Barker [00:00:09]:
In this podcast we speak with musicians, DJs, engineers and producers about their fantasy Forever Studio.
Will Betts [00:00:15]:
The Fantasyland studio that our guests dream up is one that they must live with for the rest of time. But even in the world of studio foreverdom, we have a few rules.
Chris Barker [00:00:23]:
Indeed, our guests will select a computer, a DAW and an audio interface. Those are free items that everybody gets. Then our guests will choose just six other bits of studio gear, plus one non studio related luxury item. But yes.
Will Betts [00:00:39]:
Choosing something sold as a package of separate software or hardware as a single item is forbidden.
Chris Barker [00:00:45]:
Our guest this time started out as an aerospace engineer, but owing to his love of music production, began moonlighting in the legendary Sunset Sound Studios in LA.
Will Betts [00:00:53]:
Yes, after building up his production shops in the 80s and 90s, he had his major commercial breakthrough in 2001 producing POD's three time platinum selling album Satellite.
Chris Barker [00:01:03]:
From there he's worked with the biggest names in rock and pop, including My Chemical Romance, Bon Jovi, Kelly Clarkson and Santana. And he's had several Grammy winning albums along the way.
Will Betts [00:01:12]:
That's right. And he even has his own plug in! This is my Forever Studio with Howard Benson. Welcome, Howard, Welcome.
Howard Benson [00:01:23]:
Nice to meet you guys.
Chris Barker [00:01:24]:
You heard some of the rules there. Free items, six studio items and whatnot. But before we get into that, let's talk a little bit of background about how you got into the older studio game. As we heard there you were an engineer before and. And then we'll start dreaming up this Forever Studio. So yeah, love of music production, but how did that start? What was the. Were you a musician first or was it all about the technology and building the equipment?
Howard Benson [00:01:52]:
Totally musician first. I actually didn't really think about being an engineer, but I went to college for that at Drexel University and got my degree in it. So I figured that was, you know, going to be where I was going to make money in the very beginning of my life. You know, it was not going to be music probably. So I came out to LA when I was like 22 and worked for Garrett Air Research in Torrance, California. And that was as a mechanical engineer and a process engineer on lots of airplanes. Like I worked on the C5B, I worked on, on the F18, I worked on the Space Shuttle. Anything that had to do with mechanical stuff, like I worked on the Orbital Gimbal Actuators, I worked on the Leading Edge Slat Actuation Systems.
Howard Benson [00:02:38]:
And I liked it. I was a good engineer. I like got promoted a bunch of times. But every night my little rock band that followed me out to LA with me would play the clubs in Hollywood at the time, the Central, which is now the Viper Room, Whiskey. And we were, at the time we thought we were the best band in Hollywood. We were actually the worst band in Hollywood. We were laughing at Mötley Crüe across the street like, haha, look at those guys in the makeup. You know, so.
Howard Benson [00:03:07]:
But you know, I guess we just didn't know what we didn't know. We had some producers produce demos for us and I think that's kind of when I started to go, you know what, I don't really want to be in a band anymore. But this job that this guy's doing that we hired to make the music with us in a studio, that's how I actually got into Sunset Sound, is that he picked that studio to do demos for my band. And you know, I made friends with the coffee guy at the time, a guy named Bill Jackson and Sunset at the time. And I think it's still the same way. I'm not sure how liberal they are about this, but they would say, okay, if you want to come in in the middle of the night and use studio time and eventually you'll pay us back if you become successful and bring projects. And that's kind of what I did. So I would work as an engine, get off at 3:30, change into like my leather jacket and go to the studio and produce demos, demo after demo after demo after demo.
Howard Benson [00:04:00]:
Like at some point I think it just got to be too much. No sleep, you know. And I said to my boss at the aerospace engineering company, hey, I'm going to go be a music producer. And it was like coming like literally out of left field to him. He didn't know what a music producer was or that I was even in music at all.
Chris Barker [00:04:21]:
Yeah, I mean they must have thought you were crazy.
Howard Benson [00:04:24]:
Crazy at the time. Yeah, I thought I was crazy. My parents thought I was crazy because we had just spent all this money on a college education. But it was something that I, I figured if I tried it for about six months, I could always go back to being an engineer. Little did I realize that all my security clearances were gone after I left and I couldn't just jump back into being an engineer. It was, that was a time when computers were starting to become more Ubiquitous. And I was like, this is not going to be that easy to get back into this, you know. And then I started getting some demos and stuff like that.
Howard Benson [00:04:58]:
But then I guess I really fell in love with the. The producer role because I was really. One thing I knew I was pretty good at was being a good leader. I was good at, like, not taking things too personally. And I think a lot of that had to do with just working at a real job, actually, for four years as an engineer. Like, you have to get along with people. You have to get stuff done. It has to be methodical.
Howard Benson [00:05:21]:
You have to have plans. You can't just screw this stuff up. It's. It's in airplanes, you know, and I.
Chris Barker [00:05:28]:
Guess military as well, maybe.
Howard Benson [00:05:30]:
Mostly military, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we did the seven. I think we did this. No, we did the DC10 after that really horrible air crash. And in Chicago, we built a system to stop what went wrong with that air crash. It's called a. Was called a.
Howard Benson [00:05:47]:
A counter that counted those slat. It's whatever. Anyway, so I kind of like brought that mentality to the studio and it was kind of a disaster because what. In the studio, you can't be working in your head. You need to be in your heart, and you need to learn how to feel things. And in aerospace, you're not feeling anything. Everything is pretty much by the book, you know, by the rules, by the notes, by the numbers. You know, you can't just say, I hope this wing works because it just looks so cool, you know, it doesn't work like that, you know, but in music, that's a different story.
Howard Benson [00:06:24]:
So the bands I produced, like Jack Mack and the Heart Attack, these are early LA bands, they kind of schooled me a little bit in that kind of feel, the way to understand how I was feeling things, like how to feel something, how to understand a good song. But it took a while, you know, I had to really unlearn a discipline and learn another discipline. And I didn't have that many mentors. So I was lucky at one point to meet a guy named Keith Olsen, who was a great record producer in the 80s and 90s. Produced Fleetwood Mac and the Scorpions and Foreigner and everything. I ended up working with him and he taught me a lot about how to comp vocals, how to do vocals, what's important, what's not important in the studio, you know, and what happens is, as you go through this, you start weeding out the things that are not important, and you start focusing on the stuff that's really important.
Chris Barker [00:07:13]:
Such as? Can you give us some examples there of some of the biggest between most important and least important?
Howard Benson [00:07:19]:
Yeah, I mean, vocals, Vocals, vocals and songs and, you know, top line and melody, things like that. Those are really what sell records. I mean, the rest of the stuff, you know, you walk. You walk in as a kid and you look at all the buttons and switches and knobs and strings and all that, and you just go, oh, my God, that stuff's so important, but it means absolutely nothing at all. What really matters is, is does this feel good or not? Do I like it or not? We're selling feelings. That's what we sell. And if you get caught up in the. And again, this has been a problem for a lot of artists that have their own daws.
Howard Benson [00:07:52]:
They get caught up in that part of it and they forget about the song, you know, I mean, it's the song that really matters. If you think about it, it's the same in the movie business and the TV business. You have a shitty script. Yeah, the movie. I don't care how many Avengers and Marvel movies you make. And by the way, that's wrong with. What's wrong with the franchise. Those franchises are suffering because the scripts suck, you know, so that's something you learn the hard way, because you go into these sessions and you bring all your guitars and your amps and your effects pedals and all the, you know, crazy, you know, things that you can do in the studio and have fun with.
Howard Benson [00:08:28]:
By the way, it's like a. It's a. It's kind of like a toy shop, you know, you're just having great fun with reverbs and delays and compressors and all that. But if you have a shitty song, it doesn't matter what you just did. None of it matters.
Chris Barker [00:08:41]:
So in those early L. A days, was that the era that people might know from the. The Death of Western Civilization, the Metal Years documentary?
Howard Benson [00:08:49]:
Yeah, I would call, like, the Hair Band era, actually.
Chris Barker [00:08:52]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Howard Benson [00:08:53]:
Like, those are the first bands I produced were hair bands like Bang Tango and Pretty Boy Floyd?
Chris Barker [00:08:58]:
And were any of those in that documentary the kind of upcoming.
Howard Benson [00:09:01]:
I think TSOL might have been in that? True Sounds of Liberty, they were a punk band. Yeah, that was the first band I ever produced, actually. Amazing. And I think that you learn as you go through your career, you start running into people somehow. Lemmy from Motörhead liked a few of my records and hired me to produce Motörhead. And that was like, such a learning experience because you realize that this is a true rock Star, Right. This guy doesn't give a shit about you or anything. He just is going to be Lemmy, you know.
Chris Barker [00:09:32]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:09:32]:
And there's a certain reason they hire producers is to take that uncontrollable energy and insanity and get it on the tape at the time, you know, somehow get it there in an organized 180 second way, because that's our working palate is 180 seconds pretty much. Right. So, yeah, that's how I always think about this. Like, we have 180 second arc to make things work and tell a story or tell a feeling. And with Motörhead, it was really challenging because, you know, Lemmy was on anything he could take at the time. And the band plays at a bazillion decibels. But then we made some great records together and, you know, you realize that the feeling is what really mattered to Lemmy. It wasn't really the rest of it.
Howard Benson [00:10:13]:
And I did Ice Tea and Body Count and that same thing with those guys, you know, that was a brutal record to do because I was so out of my element. But I learned how to handle people like, you know, that were not me, that were coming from different backgrounds and different places and different experiences. And you kind of feel blessed by that because your job is to really take the great, you know, experiment of the. The US in a way of freedom of speech and put it on tape, you know, and get what people are thinking about and what their views of the world. And you start thinking like that and you feel really, like, blessed to be in the producer's seat like that. You can, you know, channel this stuff in a way that, you know, like, it's the word song in Latin means form, so great form, you know, And a lot of these artists have no idea about, like, POD and know what a chorus was or a verse or anything, you know, and you're just, you know, at that point when I. I was ready for that project because I had done all the 10,000 hours of suffering for 10 years of no hits, struggling with two kids in private school, not having enough money to even. My wife and I are like, I'm going to be a real estate agent.
Howard Benson [00:11:20]:
You know, like all this stuff is coming down on you, and then all of a sudden you have a hit record and the whole thing, it's like you're holding on for dear life. After that, you just try not to get dropped by the train, you know, and it's great because now you're making all this money and you're getting great bands to produce the Band level is so much higher. When you have hits. You're not dealing with these new artists that don't know what they're doing. You're getting the Bon Jovi's and the Santanas and you know, the All American Rejects. This bands on their second albums that have already had hit records. Yeah, but then you have to be ready for that pressure because that pressure is, you know, we need hits again. Gun to your head.
Chris Barker [00:11:55]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:11:55]:
You know. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, big sports fan, my guys, you know, when we started having hits, I said, look, all that matters is the scoreboard. That's it. That's all I'm looking at. I don't care about the rest of it. We put up points. We'll be producing this band the next time.
Howard Benson [00:12:10]:
I don't care how much they hate us. I don't care if they didn't enjoy themselves. I don't give a shit what they think actually. But if we sell records, they're going to be. And you know what? It worked every time because I did like four Three Days Grace records and four Theory Records and three, four Hoobastank. Like I got hired all the time by the same artists because we just looked at the scoreboard as being our ultimate goal. I wasn't concerned with anything else about that. And the way to get the scoreboard was to have great vocals and great songs.
Chris Barker [00:12:37]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:12:38]:
The rest of it had nothing to do with it. I don't care if they were using a Strat, a Telecaster, a Les Paul, what size strings they were, what drum heads, they were, what drumsticks they were, what mic was up. None of that stuff mattered. You know, what mattered was somebody comes out and sings, you know, "the reason is you", and that's it. That matters. Or Gerard [Way] comes with one lyric and he's. His only lyric that I heard in the beginning was, "hey, I've got this lyric: 'I'm not okay.' What do you think?" I'm like, that's the whole fucking project.
Howard Benson [00:13:08]:
But that takes a while to get there. Do you know what I mean? You don't just wake up one day and that's there.
Chris Barker [00:13:13]:
Yes.
Howard Benson [00:13:14]:
You have to go through a lot of experience and failure, failure, failure, rejection, failure, failure, failure. That makes you a better producer, you know, you're eliminating things.
Chris Barker [00:13:25]:
Well, that kind of gives us a good jump off point to start talking about the Forever Studio because you aren't going to have much choice of equipment here in our little arbitrary ruled system.
Howard Benson [00:13:37]:
Well, I don't need any actually.
Chris Barker [00:13:40]:
Okay, done.
Howard Benson [00:13:41]:
That is pretty metal that's the end of it.
Chris Barker [00:13:43]:
Yeah. The first thing we do on the Forever Studio is talk about fantasy level. Where in the world you would have your studio and the kind of vibe it would be. Not necessarily the equipment, just the kind of vibe and where you would have it if you could have it anywhere.
Howard Benson [00:13:59]:
To me, it's all about the personnel.
Chris Barker [00:14:01]:
Okay.
Howard Benson [00:14:01]:
So I would be here. You know, I wouldn't need to change anything because I have. I mean, Hatch is sitting over here. Hatch has been with me 20 years. Mike has been with me 20 years. Paul, my Pro Tools guy, has been with me 20 years. My guitar tech's been with me about 20 years. They've all been with me the whole time.
Howard Benson [00:14:17]:
And I can't imagine making records without them, actually. So wherever they went, I would go. Or we ever, like. We could probably make records anywhere. I mean, if I wanted to, like, have a vacation, I'd probably do it at Bob Brock Studio in Hawaii or something.
Chris Barker [00:14:32]:
Okay. We can start with that as the Forever Studio. If you want to take that, you can get all. Take your team with you. Have you been to Bob Rock's studio?
Howard Benson [00:14:40]:
No, but it's in Hawaii. How bad can it be? But I have worked in, like, the warehouse in Vancouver. I really enjoyed that. The problem with that stuff is, and a lot of producers will tell you this, you can't. You're just used to the sound of things where you're used to the sound of things. And that's a. It's hard to replicate those things anywhere where you go, you know, Like, I list these speakers and where I'm sitting. I mean, these speakers, like, I'd probably not be able to find them anywhere just because they're, believe it or not, $79 Logitech speakers.
Will Betts [00:15:15]:
That's what I monitor through most of the time, or.
Howard Benson [00:15:18]:
Yeah, that's them. Yeah. The rest of the speakers are really just for looks, you know?
Will Betts [00:15:24]:
You're not serious, Howard.
Howard Benson [00:15:26]:
Yeah. The artist goes, oh, you must be using the KRKs. I'm like, nah, they're using the Logitechs, you know, and the computer speakers. And you know what? I've made hit after hit through those things, and just because I know what they sound like, and I know that they don't sound great, and if it sounds great through there, it's gonna sound great anywhere, you know? So I don't go for a big. I don't even listen loud. I listen, like, lower than we're talking right now.
Chris Barker [00:15:49]:
Wow.
Howard Benson [00:15:49]:
You know, I listen very low. Yeah, you don't want Your ears acting as compressors. Again, that's a technical thing that. As an engineer, I kind of know this stuff. But the more you turn it up, the more your eardrums pin themselves to the skin. And then you just sound like everything sounds awesome because you're basically one big Fairchild, you know? So what's the point of that?
Chris Barker [00:16:09]:
That happens to a lot of people after long sessions, doesn't it? Where it's the classic. You wake up the next morning and you go, oh, God, it sounded so good last night. And you put it on and you go, what? Because you've had a sleep, rested your ears.
Howard Benson [00:16:20]:
We don't have long sessions. Our longest session is eight hours, maybe.
Chris Barker [00:16:24]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:16:25]:
Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Like, we just stop, actually, after eight hours just to stop. We know that we're not getting anything after that. Now the artists want to continue, that's fine. They can go to their hotel room, we'll give them a file, and they can go stay up all night. We don't care about that, of course, but for us, we know our limitations.
Chris Barker [00:16:42]:
Yeah.
Will Betts [00:16:43]:
You know, but. So this is you now, Howard, versus, like, what. What were you doing when Lemmy was in the studio? Surely you couldn't have been like, oh, we're gonna listen to these tiny little Logitechs. It wouldn't have flown.
Howard Benson [00:16:53]:
No. Oh, no, we. We had to listen. I had airplane earmuffs on because the sound pressure was so high.
Will Betts [00:16:59]:
Wow.
Howard Benson [00:16:59]:
You know, and it was brutal with him. In fact, he had no hearing left at all. So I have some pictures of him mixing with us with four faders for each guy, and they're not hooked up to anything, so they would just. He would just move things back and forth and he'd be like, oh, that's. That's perfect. You know, like, okay, print that one. You know, nothing happening, you know, so, you know, and we actually drew pictures of each band member on them. So that was pre.
Howard Benson [00:17:27]:
Personalized it, you know, so. Yeah, so you. But you learn all those tricks, you know what I mean? Like, throughout your career, like, how am I gonna not screw this project up?
Chris Barker [00:17:38]:
We have to make a choice of where you want it in the world. You're gonna stick in la. Are we gonna take over the Hawaii studio?
Howard Benson [00:17:44]:
Well, I'm gonna stick here. Also, there's another reason the talent is here, right? So I can't get the talent anywhere else. You know, I can't get the songwriters anywhere else. I can't get the bass player. I mean, in Nashville, it's okay, but I always kind of called Nashville the B team, you know.
Will Betts [00:18:00]:
Fighting words, Howard. I know lot of people would be very upset about that.
Howard Benson [00:18:03]:
Yeah, I know, I know. I'm just poking at them a little bit, but, you know. Well, there was an exodus, though, in 2013, 2014, of course, all the people that couldn't make money left and left and went somewhere where it was cheaper to live.
Chris Barker [00:18:17]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:18:17]:
And my wife and I were like, should we go? Because, like, is it going to be messed up in la? And I said, I ain't moving there. No offense, but, like, who wants that weather and that stuff? I want to live in la. I mean, you can say whatever you want about California, but I go hiking and biking in the middle of January and they can't. And I like my life outside life, you know, so. And that eliminates a lot of studios, by the way, you know, like, who wants to be locked up inside during terrible weather and stuff? The one place I wish I had really worked at, though, was, like, Compass Point in the Bahamas. And the studios that were back in the day, those are the. See, I'm going to Abbey Road next week in England. When I go there, I'm getting a private tour with my friend.
Howard Benson [00:19:00]:
There's a place I'd like to work at, you know, I mean, if I could work there. And I'm trying to get three days grace to do part of their tracking there, you know. But again, and that's specific stuff, like, I know it's just tracking.
Chris Barker [00:19:12]:
It's amazing weather right here now as well, Howard. So you're going to have it? Yeah. You're going to have. Yeah, it's like, for the UK it's like 25 degrees Celsius, so that's perfect. It's pretty nice out here. Yeah. So, yeah, you'll have a lovely.
Howard Benson [00:19:27]:
I can do the math really fast. You double in that 28.
Chris Barker [00:19:30]:
Of course you can engineer. Yeah, don't doubt it. Okay, well, let's lock, lock in the studio in L. A and let's get the three free items out of the way. Which is free. Yes. So you get six other items coming up, but everybody gets an audio interface, a choice of computer and a daw. So just the three that you would have in your forever studio, what would they be?
Howard Benson [00:19:54]:
I'd probably stick with Pro Tools because that's just what I came up on. And the most powerful Mac I could get. Yeah, whatever that is.
Chris Barker [00:20:03]:
Desktop.
Howard Benson [00:20:03]:
Yeah, I use the Mac desktop over here, Mac Mini, but I just have an M1. I get probably get the. Whatever the M chip is at the.
Chris Barker [00:20:11]:
Moment will all spec it out for you.
Will Betts [00:20:13]:
Now, the most powerful right now would be the Mac Studio M3 Ultra. There's probably an M4 Ultra coming, or an M4 Max. One of those would be your biggest, best disc.
Howard Benson [00:20:22]:
That's probably what I'd get. But see, here's the problem. I wouldn't see anything different happening between those two things because it's working great, you know, right now. So. And I, And I use a Digidesign interface that, you know, that's it. Like I have 24 in, 24 out in this studio. There's 48 in, 48 out. So.
Howard Benson [00:20:46]:
And that's the interface we use. It's just the straight old Digidesign one.
Chris Barker [00:20:49]:
So that's. That's gotta be fairly old, isn't it?
Howard Benson [00:20:52]:
Hey, Hatch, what interface is this we're using here?
Chris Barker [00:20:55]:
That's a new one.
Howard Benson [00:20:56]:
That. It's a new one. I mean. Avid Interface. Avid Interface 192. Yeah, yeah. But I'd get the updated version of that, probably, whatever that is. But I don't really need that right now.
Howard Benson [00:21:08]:
But I would if I was doing it. And probably. I mean, I have a lot of friends that use a lot of other interfaces. I just don't know what they are because I don't need. Necessarily need to use those.
Chris Barker [00:21:18]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:21:18]:
You know, in this studio, we're just recording vocals pretty much. So it's not like that crazy, you know, but you've.
Chris Barker [00:21:24]:
You've always gone with sort of the Avid or Digidesign Pro Tools.
Howard Benson [00:21:28]:
No, we. We actually did Apogee for a while.
Chris Barker [00:21:30]:
Okay.
Howard Benson [00:21:30]:
We had the Apogees and we really liked them. I think the reason we went back to the Digidesign was clocking issues. I think there was just a bunch of clocking problems that we had. My engineer would, oh, the thing defaulted to this. We used to record at 192 and then we banked back to 96 and then we went back to 4. Now we're at 48 again. 48, 24. Which seems to work really well for us.
Howard Benson [00:21:51]:
You know, we have been opening old sessions that are at 96 and it's, you know, we just go, why? What were we thinking about? You know, like, you can't hear any difference really. You know, with rock music, I mean.
Will Betts [00:22:03]:
Was there any difference for anything? I mean, why we. Why did you decide that 96 was the thing at that time? Because it was very popular for a while.
Howard Benson [00:22:09]:
It was universal music made it a thing. Thing that you had to deliver in 96. So. And we had this. It was like 10, 15 years ago, but we had this meeting with them with Chris Lord-Alge, who was mixing my records at the time. And we said to them, we can't do this. Like, we just can't run the computer. At the time, the power was not strong enough to run a ton of tracks at 96.
Howard Benson [00:22:31]:
Plus it was taking forever to render files. So we just made up a big stink and we just said, okay, so what happens when we get like a sample at 4K, you know, or an 8K sample? What are we gonna do, upscale it? Oh, you're not allowed to do that. Well, then what are we supposed to do with it? Well, we'll be able to tell if you did it. Okay, so we're not gonna use a drum sample from an old drum record that we got from a kid at 8K, you know, like, it started to become a mess, you know, so they finally backed down on that one. But they were threatening us. They would just say, we can tell if you up sampled it and we're gonna like, not pay you guys. What? So, you know, I mean, but that's technology. That's tech guys getting in the way, you know, that's the tech guys.
Howard Benson [00:23:11]:
I think what Apple's doing now, Apple, we have to mix everything in Atmos now to get the extra Apple, you know, push for your music because they give you an extra bump if you do that. So we have a guy doing Atmos for us now. That's the only thing that we do that's sort of like outside the stereo world, you know, for us. So I probably have an Atmos system, by the way, if I could get one.
Chris Barker [00:23:32]:
Well, we can get to that for the fantasy studio as we. As we go through the next six items. And obviously feel free to choose items that maybe emphasize things about you or artists that you like or the way you work, obviously. But it is the fantasy studio, so you can go quite ridiculous as well.
Will Betts [00:23:49]:
I mean, you've got a nice studio there, Howard, right now, but money is no object in the fantasy studio, remember?
Howard Benson [00:23:53]:
Okay.
Will Betts [00:23:54]:
Anything you've ever wanted could be yours if you just.
Howard Benson [00:23:57]:
There are a few things if you.
Will Betts [00:23:58]:
Want to dream a dream.
Chris Barker [00:24:00]:
So you've got those three items, the audio interface, your Avid interface, and your spec'd out Mac. Those. We've got everything else. Now you've got six other items to build your fantasy studio. So item number one, what would you go for?
Howard Benson [00:24:13]:
I know it sounds crazy, but I'd probably get a Moog 3C synthesizer, which is the original Moog modular. Big, big ass Keith Emerson synth. Oh, yeah.
Will Betts [00:24:26]:
Okay.
Howard Benson [00:24:26]:
Bob Moog made for Keith Emerson. Very almost priceless.
Chris Barker [00:24:30]:
A little gentle round of applause there for a great start to this.
Will Betts [00:24:33]:
Very well.
Chris Barker [00:24:34]:
High level fantasy studio build.
Will Betts [00:24:36]:
Not holding back.
Chris Barker [00:24:37]:
Love it.
Howard Benson [00:24:37]:
Yeah, that would be something.
Chris Barker [00:24:39]:
So have you always wanted one of those since you see Keith Emerson and such. Use it.
Howard Benson [00:24:45]:
I serious Emerson fan. Yeah, big time.
Will Betts [00:24:48]:
Oh, really?
Howard Benson [00:24:48]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up listening to the prog rock. I'm like, we always threatened to sort of make prog rock records. We. Nobody ever can do it because they just can't do it right. So then I probably get another. I know this is not stay on Keith Emerson, but the Yamaha GX1, which is the first big polyphonic synthesizer made, which was used in like a bunch of videos. You can see it.
Howard Benson [00:25:14]:
There's not any left, I don't think, but there's like maybe one left. Stevie Wonder had one.
Chris Barker [00:25:19]:
There's. There's quite a few left. I think there's about five or six.
Howard Benson [00:25:22]:
Are there? Oh, that's. And I'd want one of those.
Chris Barker [00:25:24]:
I played on one in Belgium. The guy had the full rig.
Howard Benson [00:25:27]:
Oh, wow.
Chris Barker [00:25:28]:
And he had his barn full of synths. And I mean like full, like hundreds, maybe two, 300 synths. And at the end he had the full GSX with the speakers and everything.
Howard Benson [00:25:41]:
With the speakers, yeah.
Chris Barker [00:25:42]:
And. Yeah. Amazing.
Howard Benson [00:25:44]:
Yeah.
Chris Barker [00:25:44]:
And I think he paid €60,000 for it, which was a lot, but now is probably worth so. Because I think there's about five complete ones left or something. Stevie Wonder's probably got one of them.
Howard Benson [00:25:58]:
Yeah.
Chris Barker [00:25:59]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:25:59]:
I have actually a ARP 2600, the original 2600, but I use the Behringer one actually, because the Behringer one doesn't like that. Mine is finicky because it's so old.
Chris Barker [00:26:12]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:26:13]:
You know, and it drifts all the time. Where the Behringer one, it does the same thing kind of, but it doesn't drift in tuning. So I kind of use that. I also have a lot of vox continentals. Like I collect keyboards. I have tons and tons of keyboards and everything, so. And I probably. The third thing I'd probably want.
Howard Benson [00:26:30]:
I don't know, I probably would want to have like. Like one of the 12 string Rickenbacker that George Harrison used on a lot of records.
Chris Barker [00:26:38]:
Okay.
Howard Benson [00:26:39]:
That's something that always amazed me. The sound of like, you know, Norwegian wood and sort of like the way the birds use that Rickenbacker on turn, turn, Turn and all that. Those are, I mean those are priceless items. Those are things that just change the sound of music back then, you know, I mean, I don't think people realized how Rickenbacker was sort of like the, the Beatles wouldn't use Les Paul's or Strats, they used Rickenbacker. And you think about, I mean if you guys read the book Birth of Loud, but it talks about the competition between, you know, Gibson and Fender trying to get the Beatles. And they were just like, we're not using either one, we're going to use this Rickenbacker's. It's interesting about the birth of that. That book is really cool because it talks about Les Paul and how the, the guitars were kind of out of favor for almost 10 years.
Howard Benson [00:27:25]:
Like nobody had a Les Paul because nobody, they were too heavy and Fender had dominated the business. And then all of a sudden this guy, this, this nobody had ever heard of, this guy in London clapped him.
Chris Barker [00:27:38]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:27:38]:
Started playing it and I would see the graffiti around London saying Clapton is God. And they would go, and this guy picked up this Les Paul from a pawn shop or something, you know, and basically single handedly resurrected the brand, you know, Incredible. So it's, you know, it's a pretty cool story actually.
Chris Barker [00:27:59]:
The music tech My Forever studio podcast is supported by Audient, makers of the ID range of audio interfaces.
Will Betts [00:28:05]:
Yes. Building on audience decades of Design heritage, the ID range spans from the portable ID4 to the feature packed ID14, 24 and 44 interfaces. Plus an awesome brand new flagship.
Chris Barker [00:28:17]:
Let's get into it. The new interface is called the ID48 and it completes the range with a whopping 24 ins and 32 outs. It also features switchable balanced inserts allowing users to record with outboard kit and easily process stems via hardware when mixing.
Will Betts [00:28:31]:
Yes. Aimed at both producers and engineers, the ID48 packs in eight audient console mic preamps, advanced 32 bit ESS converter technology and that all new switchable analog insert technology too. Add to that professional must have features like ADA expandability, jfet DI inputs and customizable monitor control and it makes for a really serious audio interface for your studio.
Chris Barker [00:28:53]:
Yes, the ID48 is ready to transform your studio for US$999, €899 and €749.
Will Betts [00:29:02]:
Visit audient.com for more information and to explore the full breadth and features of the ID interface range.
Chris Barker [00:29:12]:
So if we lock in in those three items, we've raced through those.
Howard Benson [00:29:15]:
Yeah.
Will Betts [00:29:16]:
We really have. Before we go on to the fourth, Chris, can we just jump back? How much hands on time have you had with a Moog 3C and a Yamaha GX1?
Chris Barker [00:29:25]:
Like.
Howard Benson [00:29:25]:
Like, none. That's why I want it.
Will Betts [00:29:27]:
Okay, so this is really okay. This is the approach.
Chris Barker [00:29:32]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:29:32]:
I mean, that's the. That's the beauty of it, you know? Like, I don't. I want stuff. I have pretty much, like, everything else that I can buy, but I can't find. Like, the 3C is something. It's hard to find something that's not a replica.
Chris Barker [00:29:44]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:29:45]:
Of that or somebody. Or it's missing the modules or it doesn't have the ribbon controller or it doesn't have the real keyboard. You know, I think there's one on display with Keith Emerson stuff in the. The synth in Philadelphia. And the synth. There's like a synth thing there or something. I think they don't think they have the GX1. They have.
Howard Benson [00:30:03]:
They have his Hammond organ there. So. Yeah. I mean. And the GX1 is so, like, something that I saw played a few times with different guys. And I'm like. I would just love to get my hands on this thing, like, just to see how it works. I'm just like.
Howard Benson [00:30:17]:
That's the tech part of me, you know, like, that wants to see the technology behind. I. I would probably take them apart, actually. You know. My God, that's the first thing I do. Get out the auto screwdriver and just take them apart.
Will Betts [00:30:27]:
You know, the soldering iron in hand.
Chris Barker [00:30:30]:
GX1. Isn't it like two CS-80s or something? Or three CS-80s in one or something like that?
Howard Benson [00:30:36]:
Well, I remember it had two keyboards and it had that little tiny keyboard at the top.
Chris Barker [00:30:39]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:30:40]:
Which was like, the synth part or the, like, solo part of it. So. But I just remember the story that Keith Emerson had one, and I think a tractor went through his house and actually smashed straight into it and destroyed it.
Chris Barker [00:30:54]:
No, Attractor.
Howard Benson [00:30:55]:
A tractor. Yeah. And he was destroyed mentally over this because it was like his keyboard, and I don't think he ever got another one. I think he had trouble finding one that worked.
Chris Barker [00:31:07]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:31:07]:
I don't think they. I don't think they supported it that much. Yama. It was too. Like, a lot of these things were, you know, like the Moog 3C turned into the mini Moog. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's an affordable synth, I think.
Chris Barker [00:31:17]:
I think it was built for exhibitions, mainly the Yamaha one. It was mainly right as a kind of Corporate Flex to show how advanced they could make synthesizers. And, you know, it was meant to just be for like NAMM and trade show for nam. Right? Yeah. And things like that.
Will Betts [00:31:33]:
Massive R and D testbed for other. Yes, yeah, things that.
Howard Benson [00:31:37]:
For other stuff.
Will Betts [00:31:38]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Howard Benson [00:31:38]:
It's amazing what Yamaha did with it. I just got a DX7 actually. I bought one.
Will Betts [00:31:42]:
Oh, really?
Howard Benson [00:31:43]:
I haven't had it in like 30 years. And that thing is so cool how like, I forgot how cool it was actually. You know, just the additive synthesis and.
Chris Barker [00:31:51]:
As an engineer, you'll be able to program it. Right.
Howard Benson [00:31:54]:
Actually, I got it. It was broken. Believe it or not. It was shipped from Japan and the. It got dropped obviously somehow and this. And the power supply got broken in half and all the contacts, everything was just boom. So I spent about two days soldering the whole thing back together and now it works great. But it lost the memory.
Howard Benson [00:32:14]:
So I got to find it, I think online you can buy the memory card.
Chris Barker [00:32:17]:
SysEx.
Howard Benson [00:32:18]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, SysEx.
Chris Barker [00:32:20]:
And it's quite easy because you can use like FM8 or there's a freeware software synth called Dexed and that supports DX7 SysEx import and export. And you can program in Dexed, which is a nicer interface than the DX7, you know, going through all the buttons.
Howard Benson [00:32:38]:
So how do you do that through your computer? Through midi?
Chris Barker [00:32:41]:
Yes. Yeah. And then you just send it via MIDI and you can send the SYSX file to the DX7 and it'll load as a patch on your actual hardware.
Howard Benson [00:32:48]:
Okay.
Chris Barker [00:32:48]:
And obviously then it'll sound like the actual synth, but you can program it in the freeware called Dext.
Howard Benson [00:32:54]:
Yeah, I have to mess with that.
Chris Barker [00:32:55]:
It's really cool as well, because if you actually really dig online, there's all of like the old LA sound banks, like the cartridges that used to get expansion packs for the DX7.
Howard Benson [00:33:05]:
That's what I want.
Chris Barker [00:33:06]:
And there's thousands and thousands and thousands of these like SYSX files online. Yeah, that's the best thing about getting those old FM synths like now the DX100 and the DX7 and all of them is you can use that freeware to do the easy front end programming and then dump it in the hardware for the sound.
Howard Benson [00:33:23]:
Yeah, I think those guys put, you know, the Rhodes out of business, basically. The DX7.
Chris Barker [00:33:30]:
Yeah, that electric piano sound of the 80s.
Howard Benson [00:33:33]:
That piano sound was just amazing.
Chris Barker [00:33:34]:
Yeah, that was the one. Every ballad had to have the DX7.
Howard Benson [00:33:38]:
And the bass sounds. Yes. And that. That funky bass sound that people want back. They want that again now.
Chris Barker [00:33:43]:
You know, lately bass, that was the preset.
Howard Benson [00:33:46]:
Something like that. Wow.
Chris Barker [00:33:48]:
I didn't realize until now how much of a DX7 nerd I am, so. Thank you for indulging that.
Howard Benson [00:33:54]:
Yeah.
Chris Barker [00:33:55]:
All comes out on our podcast. What I was going to say is you've got those three amazing things locked in, but we still don't have any speakers. We're going to. We're not going to go for the Logitechs in the Forever studio, are we?
Howard Benson [00:34:07]:
Sorry, no, I. I would. I know exactly what I would use. I would get old Yamaha DX7s. The. The originals. Sorry, not DS7. NS10.
Howard Benson [00:34:17]:
Sorry. NS10s get all mixed up there. Yeah. Because the NS10s were in such demand around here that people would pay incredible prices for them until finally that fever broke and people started buying better, like, you know, KRKs and all kinds of stuff like that. But we in our other studios still use the NS10s as our monitoring. And I would just probably get a pair of NS10s and about 10 backups. Because they just blow out.
Chris Barker [00:34:44]:
Yeah, yeah.
Howard Benson [00:34:44]:
You know, unless you fuse them and nobody fuses them. So. Yeah, I just don't think they just sound great.
Chris Barker [00:34:51]:
And what are you amping them with? Are you Bryston or.
Howard Benson [00:34:54]:
Ah, that's a really good question. Hey, Hatch, what would I use as a NS10amp? Hafner. Oh, Hafner. Hafner. Yeah. That's my engineer. He knows everything.
Chris Barker [00:35:04]:
No, no, that's fine. Because that's what they say. A lot of people have preferences. Like the whole idea of the NS10s was that it's the same speaker everywhere, but everybody's using different amps with them. So it kind of a little bit can change it and color it. So people have their own preferences. I know in the UK there was a big preference for. Is it Bryston Ampswell?
Will Betts [00:35:25]:
Am I Bryston? And Quad as well. Quad were very popular in the uk.
Chris Barker [00:35:29]:
Yeah. For the.
Howard Benson [00:35:30]:
Well, I also would get the matched subwoofer with it.
Chris Barker [00:35:32]:
Yes.
Howard Benson [00:35:33]:
So I know that they made a matched subwoofer. Used to have one, actually. But I don't think I could survive without a subwoofer anymore. Like, we did so much work without subwoofers back in the day, but. But now it's just like that's most of the sound coming out of us. The feeling of it.
Chris Barker [00:35:48]:
So you can end up mixing quite weirdly, can't you? Unless you can hear that real rumble, especially the music you're doing. It's like you need to know what's going on down there.
Howard Benson [00:35:56]:
Oh, yeah. I used to work with an engineer. Do you remember ET Thorngren?
Chris Barker [00:36:00]:
Yes, I know the name.
Howard Benson [00:36:02]:
He mixed, like, Addicted to Love, Robert.
Chris Barker [00:36:04]:
Palmer, all that stuff.
Howard Benson [00:36:06]:
And he had a joint on his console and only to mix the bottom end. So he would mix the whole day without getting high. And then he'd smoke the weed and then he would mix the bott.
Will Betts [00:36:15]:
That was his gotta get high to get low.
Howard Benson [00:36:18]:
Yeah, that was his way of getting it. But then he would leave for the day. But you would save the bottom end for the end of the project of the day.
Chris Barker [00:36:24]:
I love that. Will get high to get low. I like it. Nice.
Howard Benson [00:36:27]:
Yeah.
Chris Barker [00:36:28]:
So we're gonna get some NS10s. That's.
Howard Benson [00:36:31]:
Yeah.
Chris Barker [00:36:31]:
Okay. And I'm trying to figure out what.
Will Betts [00:36:33]:
This sub is, but we're going with the Hafler amp for now.
Chris Barker [00:36:36]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:36:37]:
Okay. And I would need an Auratone speaker for vocals.
Will Betts [00:36:40]:
Oh, is this your fifth item then, Howard? The. You're gonna have an aura tone.
Chris Barker [00:36:44]:
You've only got two items left.
Howard Benson [00:36:46]:
Yeah, I need an aura tone because I can't do vocals on NS10s.
Chris Barker [00:36:50]:
Well, you can't do vocals at all yet. You haven't got a microphone.
Howard Benson [00:36:52]:
That's true.
Chris Barker [00:36:53]:
Is that gonna be the last item?
Howard Benson [00:36:55]:
The microphone would be the C800. Sony.
Chris Barker [00:36:58]:
Okay.
Will Betts [00:36:59]:
Yeah, this is your.
Howard Benson [00:36:59]:
Yeah, that's. That's the microphone I use for that. My microphone is in demand. Everybody wants to use it.
Chris Barker [00:37:05]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:37:05]:
So I keep it under wraps over there.
Chris Barker [00:37:08]:
You know, it comes up a lot on the podcast that. When did you personally get into using it?
Howard Benson [00:37:13]:
2005.
Chris Barker [00:37:14]:
Okay.
Howard Benson [00:37:15]:
2006. Yeah. Right. When they. We had done Hoobastanks. The reason. And I heard. Heard it on the radio and I didn't like it.
Howard Benson [00:37:22]:
And I called my engineer up and I said, well, what do we use? He said, an 87. And I said, I don't want to use an 8. That sounds like an old dull mic to me. Like, why do we not sound like a pop album? I wanted to have a pop sound to the vocals. And he's recommended the 800 and we bought it for. It was like seven grand. Now they're like 20 grand. Some ridiculous amount.
Howard Benson [00:37:42]:
Yeah, but. Yeah, that. In the, you know, neve and the compressor that I have here, you know, that's what I would use. I mean, that's the same chain I've had forever.
Chris Barker [00:37:50]:
That's A lot of items though. Now we're gonna have to slim it down.
Howard Benson [00:37:53]:
Why you need a compressor with a vocal mic?
Chris Barker [00:37:55]:
Well, you might. You might need it, but you only get six items. This is. This is meant. It's meant to be annoying, difficult.
Howard Benson [00:38:02]:
Well then I would probably get. Yeah. See as a vocal producer mainly now it would be all vocal chain stuff, to be honest, you know, if I had to do it, because that's what I get called for mostly, you know.
Chris Barker [00:38:13]:
But what would you want in your forever studio if you were just making like records, however you wanted to make them? Like, would you still have these NS10s? So we've got the NS10s, we've got the 800 Sony and. Yeah, that's your lot with your three EPIC synths and. No, what two synths?
Will Betts [00:38:32]:
Rickenbacker and an Aurotone.
Howard Benson [00:38:34]:
Yeah, that's a hard question because like you can't have a mic without a compressor and a D and a. Yeah. So I guess I'd have to get rid of the synths.
Chris Barker [00:38:42]:
Well, maybe. Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:38:45]:
See that's why I never got them.
Chris Barker [00:38:47]:
That's why we don't give you any free speakers as well.
Howard Benson [00:38:51]:
Yeah, I guess if I had to keep working, I would think of it differently. If I just wanted to have fun, I would think of that differently.
Chris Barker [00:38:58]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:38:58]:
Do you know?
Chris Barker [00:38:58]:
Well. Well, let's make it fun.
Howard Benson [00:39:00]:
Then I'd forget about the vocal stuff because then I just would keep it to the synth stuff.
Chris Barker [00:39:04]:
You know, synth and guitars.
Howard Benson [00:39:06]:
Synthing guitars. Yeah.
Chris Barker [00:39:07]:
Okay.
Howard Benson [00:39:07]:
Yeah. Because I don't really sing that well, so I wouldn't care about it.
Chris Barker [00:39:11]:
You know, you could just make really proggy instrumental records pretty much.
Howard Benson [00:39:15]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Everything else is in the computer. Has everything else you need. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker [00:39:20]:
Have you flirted with other daws apart from Pro Tools over the years?
Howard Benson [00:39:25]:
Well, Logic. Yeah. And Ableton, but I find it. That's. The writers seem to use that more than we'd use to make the actual records themselves. So honestly, it's too much to think about, you know, like going down those rabbit holes. But we are really good at just taking the files from those guys and turning them into Pro Tools files. So we don't really even worry about it.
Howard Benson [00:39:50]:
We just take the audio files and just suck them in and that's it, you know. So we're not even trying to like turn one session into the other.
Chris Barker [00:39:58]:
Yeah. Like not trying to re trigger MIDI or do anything like that. Full on tape recorder style. Pro Tools.
Howard Benson [00:40:04]:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker [00:40:05]:
Did you must have worked with tape when you first started, right?
Howard Benson [00:40:08]:
Oh, yeah. I was in LA, probably in 97. The only guy using Pro Tools. There was nobody else using it, and we were not getting work because of it, because a lot of bands just didn't want to use it.
Chris Barker [00:40:20]:
That's ironic, the name. You were the only pro using Pro Tools, but you couldn't get work.
Howard Benson [00:40:25]:
Yeah, couldn't get work.
Chris Barker [00:40:26]:
Nightmare.
Howard Benson [00:40:27]:
I couldn't. And. And I got one band that liked using it less than Jake, and then we made hello Rockview on that record, on that thing, and then Sepultura. A lot of the bands that didn't want to be involved in the technical aspect of it were okay with it. But some bands, when you said, we're going to not use tape, they immediately shut you off because they. They didn't understand what was going on, you know.
Will Betts [00:40:51]:
Right.
Howard Benson [00:40:51]:
Again, the engineering background gave me a clear view of it, what was happening with it. So I didn't. In fact, I think when I'd made pod's record, the first album, Fundamental Elements, that was the first time that the A and R community took notice of it. And that really, to me, was more important than the artists at that point. Yeah. Where the A and R community was like, oh, you took that band and made that record with them. How the hell did you do that, you know? Well, you know, at the time, the Power Mac 7600, it was the only. There were no Apple computers back then.
Howard Benson [00:41:22]:
There were all those hybrid computers. So, you know, when they started hearing records that were made for cheaper, faster and better. With Autotune, which had come out 98 or something like that.
Chris Barker [00:41:35]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:41:35]:
All of a sudden the band started to catch on too, and that we start to get all the work and the rest of the producer community was so far behind, it was crazy. They just wouldn't give in to tape until like 2004.
Chris Barker [00:41:48]:
Do you think that's a bit of a thing about sort of rock music and guitar music as well?
Howard Benson [00:41:52]:
Absolutely.
Chris Barker [00:41:53]:
That whole scene are always quite stuck in their way. It's taken guitar manufacturers a long time to make very small changes. And most guitarists still just like a regular guitar. And individual stomp pedals.
Howard Benson [00:42:06]:
Well, not only a regular guitar. They want a guitar from 30 years.
Will Betts [00:42:09]:
Ago or 80 years ago.
Chris Barker [00:42:10]:
100 years ago. Yeah, long time.
Howard Benson [00:42:13]:
Yeah. So do I, by the way. I like vintage stuff too, but to compete. Just talking about two different things here, you know, like business, the music business, or fun with music.
Chris Barker [00:42:24]:
But what I was meaning was, when the bands wouldn't come to you for Pro Tools, it's probably like they'll, this isn't cool, it's cheating. It's computers. All of the above happens in the DJ community. You know, one of the comments is like the DJ industry is always sort of 10 years behind technically.
Howard Benson [00:42:40]:
Yeah.
Chris Barker [00:42:40]:
Because it takes about 10 years to convince DJs to sort of go from vinyl to CDs, from CDs to USBs, from USBs to laptop. You know what you can do now with a laptop and decks? It takes people a long time to want to do that because there's a lot of like, is this cheating? What am I actually doing? What's the computer doing?
Howard Benson [00:42:59]:
Well, there's also more that I sometimes wonder whether it's just laze, just flat out laziness, you know, like, who wants to really learn something new when you can just go to tape?
Chris Barker [00:43:08]:
That's true. Yeah, yeah. If you get the same result. Yeah, yeah.
Howard Benson [00:43:11]:
Well, I mean, at one point you did get the same result, but as we got better at Pro Tools, you know, Beep Detective came out and all the different plugins came out and there was like, you know, the sound got way better. You know, we started using the apogees and like that pushed digidesign into doing better job with their stuff.
Chris Barker [00:43:28]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:43:29]:
So, you know, I think the bands, look, we did tape drums up until 2002. We still recorded drums on tape and then flipped them into Pro Tools because we weren't happy with the. I mean, Pro Tools was unforgiving back then. If you distorted, you distorted. There was no, you know, built in compressors and stuff into it. I mean, now it acts like a tape machine almost.
Chris Barker [00:43:50]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:43:51]:
You know, it's so good at it now.
Chris Barker [00:43:52]:
You get saturation and you get that to get the soft clipping and that, all that stuff.
Will Betts [00:43:57]:
But when you were the first person using Pro Tools in LA and you were doing that POD for rock music. For rock music. Sorry, yes, for rock music. And you did that pod record and the A and R's heard it. Why were they so surprised that you had got the result? You got. What were you doing differently that the other, the other studios couldn't do at that time?
Howard Benson [00:44:16]:
Well, first of all, we did it pretty quickly. So it was two months at the time. Records took six months sometimes or longer to make records. We also had Autotune for the singer. And the singer was not really a singer, it was a rapper.
Will Betts [00:44:31]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:44:32]:
So to hit those notes on like Alive, you know, I Feel so alive, those were hard notes for him to hit. Right. But with Auto Tune He. Those melodies came out super strong. The harmonies, which were not hit well, were tuned, came in super strong. The drum editing was really tight. You know, these. Remember, we're dealing with street bands that don't play that well.
Howard Benson [00:44:53]:
And at the time, to get those performances, you would have to punch and punch and punch and punch. Edit tape, edit tape, edit tape, edit tape. Oh, my God. Took forever to do this stuff, to get something that was competitive. Now, if you were Bob Rock and guys like that back then, you were already successful. You could spend six months making a record. I couldn't do that. You know, so what got me the advantage was using this computer that jumped ahead of the.
Howard Benson [00:45:17]:
Like, all of a sudden, I'm editing drums in, like, two days.
Will Betts [00:45:20]:
Yeah. Wow.
Howard Benson [00:45:20]:
You know, it used to take two weeks to do that stuff with a razor blade. Oh, gosh. So. Or. And you couldn't tune vocals. You would have to basically use a synth, which is what we used to do with, like, a pitch wheel. Sample it into, like, a profit 2000. Move the pitch wheel, play it out of the pitch wheel, punch it back into the.
Howard Benson [00:45:38]:
Into the track. You know, with tape, which you're only dealing with so many tracks, so you're stuck with with how many you can do. Then comping it here, you're looking at a screen, and it's just like, boom, boom, boom, boom. You know, you're in. And then if you listen to that record, there's all these backward vocal parts and forward vocal parts and crazy reverse echoes and flying guitar parts from here to here that you could just. Just like that. You're doing it like. That was not common back then.
Howard Benson [00:46:04]:
You just couldn't say, hey, I'm gonna take the guitar part from the bridge and put it in the outro.
Chris Barker [00:46:08]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:46:09]:
You'd be like, oh, my God, what am I gonna do? Like, I'm gonna have to get another tape machine.
Chris Barker [00:46:13]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:46:14]:
And copy it from that state machine to that tape machine and lock them together using smpte. And they're gonna have to. You know, you just couldn't do it. You would just think about it and go, that's too much work.
Chris Barker [00:46:22]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:46:23]:
You know, I don't want to do it.
Chris Barker [00:46:24]:
It's funny now, listening to old records that are phenomenally produced, and it's amazing. They sort of. It just washes over you. Like, it was obvious because you were so. We're so used to, like, you know, having unlimited track counts.
Howard Benson [00:46:38]:
Well, you guys have seen the. The Queen stuff. I'm sure you have.
Chris Barker [00:46:40]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:46:42]:
You know, and. And you see Bohemian Rhapsody and how they had to make selections back then of putting vocals on the drum tracks in the beginning and then. Yeah, all that stuff. And then you just go, you know. And I know he just passed away, Roy Thomas Baker, but like, you just go, wow. Think of that thought process. And then you're mixing it a piece at a time.
Chris Barker [00:47:00]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:47:00]:
You know, you're mixing the intro, then you're. That's the mix. And in the next part you're mixing the first verse. That's the mix. Then you have to cut them together, you know.
Chris Barker [00:47:08]:
Well, all the Beach Boys stuff. And the beach boys and 10cc I'm not in Love and those kind of crazy tape loops and. Oh, yes.
Howard Benson [00:47:19]:
Yeah. But that's what made it great though.
Chris Barker [00:47:21]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:47:22]:
You know, it was like. It was necessity as the mother of invention back then. You know, I was listening to sergeant Pepper's I have that before it was mixed down. And it's incredible what they were able to take from those original tracks and turn into that mix because the original tracks are pretty messy. Like there's everywhere. There's just noise everywhere and it's wacky sounding, you know, and you just go, wow. I mean, the talent that Emmerich and George Martin had to, you know, I mean, I think that I still tell my artists that when they come in here, I will play them stuff from old records. Like, you know, that I have the files for like Boston or like the Doobie Brothers or, you know, Bohemian Rhapsody, even back to four track and eight track recordings and just say, listen to the arrangement.
Howard Benson [00:48:10]:
This arrangement is working. It's not 25,000 tracks of parts. You know, it uses these little square things which are called rests, you know, don't play. That's the key to these things. It's the space that is left, you know. And back then you had to leave the space, but now you don't have to leave space. I mean, my artists put something every 30 second note part.
Chris Barker [00:48:34]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:48:34]:
You know, and that's the cool thing about Pro Tools. You can actually look at the file and you can see a good arrangement in front of you. If you're used to working in it like that. If you see something where there's just everywhere all the time, you know, it sucks. There's just no way it's any good. Now. You look at an old arrangement, it's not like that, you know, like there's parts come in and out. Everything's arranged well, everything.
Howard Benson [00:48:55]:
The guitar plays here. The piano doesn't Play the piano plays here, the guitar doesn't play the vocal place here. You know, there's, you know, stuff drops out for the vocal to be full. All that's kind of arrangement for small band.
Chris Barker [00:49:06]:
Well, I didn't. I interviewed producers a long time ago and I called Alex Gofra in Paris. I might have mentioned it on the podcast before, where he used to say once if he's making a track, once it gets over eight, like, tracks in the Door or in Pro Tools, if it's not sounding good like a song, like it's not going to be good. You know, he's got drums, bass, guitar. You know, he's got all the elements there that can make a song. And then it's like, well, you're just gonna start wasting your time. You're basically. You don't.
Chris Barker [00:49:35]:
Like you say you don't have the. The core elements of a song there that's ready. You don't have the arrangement. And adding more and more tracks isn't going to solve that.
Howard Benson [00:49:44]:
No. And usually what happens is you're covering up a stiff switch happening. You know, a great song is. What do you really need for that? Just a guitar and a vocal. It's kind of it, you know, I.
Will Betts [00:49:57]:
Mean, you're talking about all the. The arrangement and the more cerebral elements and the more skill and technical elements of it. But you said at the beginning that it was very much the beginning of your training was about getting out of your head and getting into the heart element of it. What were some of those things and what are some of those things that you use now or would tell people to do if they were getting stuck in their own head?
Howard Benson [00:50:18]:
Just go back to the song. Just keep going back to the song. Like, you have to act like you never heard this song before every time you listen to your music. So you have to delete your demoitis. This is what I do. I have to listen to it and go, am I feeling something? Am I feeling something? Am I feeling something? Like, does this lyric connect? Is it a person, place or thing? Nobody cares, right? Is it about, like, science? Nobody cares? Is it about, you know, it's got to be about human, the feel. This is why I don't worry about AI, by the way, because it's run so deep in our humanity, our emotional responses to things, that as much as people say, oh, AI is going to be able to mimic it, yeah, that's great. But they're not going to go up on stage and play in front of you, and you're not going to Just feel this feeling coming across you.
Howard Benson [00:51:04]:
And they've tried this for ages, you know, to do things like that, to mimic stuff like that. So I had to basically, like, I think it was because I started having hits and I started reflecting on what was it that made this. Like, it was almost like in the rearview mirror, like, why was Alive such a hit song? Or why was Youth of the Nation a big hit? Or why was the Reason it hit? Or the All American Rejects? What. What about those songs? Why. Why did I feel something? And it would be something in my past. Like, I didn't experience a lot of that stuff, but it was kind of like, oh, I had a friend that went through something, and I. When I hear that, it reminds me of his struggles. Or.
Howard Benson [00:51:37]:
Man, I remember when I was with my girlfriend back then, it was like, yeah, I felt that way about her. Like, these are basic things. They're just basic, you know, it's not complicated. But, you know, And I learned a lot from watching Clive Davis. I worked with Clive on Daughtry's record and Kelly Clarkson's record, and his A and R is even more basic than mine. It's. He won't even listen to the song. He'll just look at the lyric sheet and that's it.
Howard Benson [00:52:03]:
And if the lyrics don't make any sense to him, then we don't even get to the song. So that's hardcore. A and R. That's hardcore. And that's the way. That's why he's had so many hits. He's had more hits than anybody. Right.
Howard Benson [00:52:15]:
Like, he's signed everybody, Clive, you know.
Chris Barker [00:52:17]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:52:18]:
So. And you wonder what makes it work for him. And we would go through Kelly's record and we wouldn't even listen. We just like, Let me see the lyric sheet. Yeah, yeah. We'd yellow marker things out, you know, like, let's not even work on this one. I don't. I don't.
Howard Benson [00:52:33]:
You know, next, you know, and, like, we had a Daughtry song that we were doing called It's not over, which was his first big hit. And this is where his genius comes into play. We have this lyric in the chorus, and he goes, it's not over. I'm gonna do right this time around. It's not over because a part of me is dead and in the ground. Your love is killing me like a loaded gun. It's not over. Clive goes, I hate that lyric.
Howard Benson [00:52:57]:
Like a loaded gun doesn't. Why would your love be killing me like a loaded gun? It makes no sense.
Chris Barker [00:53:02]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:53:03]:
First of all, it's a gun. And nobody. It's. It's. There's no feeling there. So I remember going home one night and I'm like. Because Clive gave me the homework assignment from hell. Right? You know, to fix this.
Howard Benson [00:53:15]:
Fix this thing. And I said. I came back and I called him. I said, you, love is killing me but you're the only one. And he goes, that's it. And do you see the difference?
Chris Barker [00:53:25]:
Yeah.
Will Betts [00:53:26]:
Totally different.
Howard Benson [00:53:27]:
And I almost get choked up thinking about it, because I remember thinking, your love is killing me but you're the only one so much better than your love is killing me like a loaded gun.
Chris Barker [00:53:38]:
Yeah, Nobody cares.
Will Betts [00:53:39]:
I've actually got chills right now, Howard. Yeah, I've just had a little moment. That's great.
Chris Barker [00:53:43]:
Very good.
Howard Benson [00:53:44]:
That is what makes. Do you see what I mean? The rest of this stuff. Who gives a fuck, right? But when people hear that over the CVs, when they're walking through the. The CVS and they're listening to their music, they're not hearing any of the studio. They're hearing the lead vocal. Yeah, that's it. We're in a car. One speaker is working, the rest aren't working.
Howard Benson [00:54:05]:
Everybody's talking in our high. And you're hearing the lead vocal. Yeah, right. Or the beach, you know?
Chris Barker [00:54:13]:
Well, there's a great line about AI with that, which is, why would I be bothered to read something that somebody else couldn't be bothered to write?
Howard Benson [00:54:20]:
Exactly.
Chris Barker [00:54:21]:
It's kind of true of music as well. Why would I be bothered to listen to something that somebody else couldn't be bothered to write?
Howard Benson [00:54:27]:
Yeah, and it's the feeling of these things that we care about. Like, I remember Tyson sent Move along to me, and I remember the lyric was. It was about the Million Man March in Washington. And I said, dude, nobody cares. What they care about is moving along through your day. How do I move along when I'm stuck? How do I get through this day that I feel. I wake up and feel bad about myself and I want to keep going, and that's what the song ended up being about.
Will Betts [00:54:50]:
About.
Howard Benson [00:54:51]:
So those are the things that are basic stuff. That's the basics of all of it. Clive was so good at that. Like, and you studied with him, and you realize that there's this other level to this business that most people don't get to see. You know, they. They go online and they see all this stuff about all this other stuff. They. I'll have this conversation.
Howard Benson [00:55:10]:
You guys are kind of understanding what I'm trying to say, but I'll have this conversation with some kids. Like I'll do a podcast. I'll be like, yeah, that's all great, but what was the EQ you used on the kick drum?
Chris Barker [00:55:19]:
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we want to know that too, but like we get the higher level. It doesn't matter, does it?
Will Betts [00:55:25]:
It's all secondary.
Chris Barker [00:55:26]:
Nobody, nobody cared about that. When, you know, you were going live into a four track mixer, you know, with a live band, it was just get it, get that great song, get a great song onto a recording.
Howard Benson [00:55:38]:
Yeah, Neil Young was the great at it. Neil Young would walk into a studio and my friend who worked on a few of his records said if he couldn't walk in and plug in his guitar, right away he left. Like he didn't want to, he didn't want to wait.
Chris Barker [00:55:49]:
Like Krusty the Clown.
Howard Benson [00:55:51]:
Yeah, he's like, let's go, you know. What do you mean you're not ready? This is a recording studio. What are we doing? I got a song. Let's go. You know, so that's the fun, that's the real art.
Chris Barker [00:56:00]:
Right, Neil? Right, Neil. We're all ready to go. Oh, he's gone, he's gone, he's gone, he's gone.
Howard Benson [00:56:04]:
Yeah. You weren't set up, you know, don't waste my time. I got this song in my head, you know.
Chris Barker [00:56:09]:
Yeah, fair, fair.
Howard Benson [00:56:10]:
But as my engineer would say, there are great songs and there are great records. So great records have a lot to do with what's all this other stuff? Because the difference between like the Wall, for example, Pink Floyd and a worse version of that is the great recording quality of the Wall and it's sounding great and it's the right microphones and the right EQ and the right reverbs and how they were able to frame that great song. But they still had a great song to start with, you know, so we try to make great records. We can't always because we just don't either have the talent to do it or the band doesn't want to do it, or we're in a rush or something. But once in a while we churn out a couple, you know.
Chris Barker [00:56:52]:
You know, That's a few there, Howard. Yeah, yeah, we know a few of them.
Howard Benson [00:56:55]:
We have a few, you know.
Chris Barker [00:56:58]:
Well, Will's gonna break down what we've got so far.
Howard Benson [00:57:01]:
Okay.
Chris Barker [00:57:01]:
And then you've got an opportunity to make changes. So to do sort of think about this, alright?
Howard Benson [00:57:06]:
What did I pick? I don't even remember.
Chris Barker [00:57:09]:
And Then right at the end, we'll talk about a luxury item which isn't a piece of gear.
Howard Benson [00:57:12]:
Okay.
Chris Barker [00:57:13]:
So something else you might want in your studio. So bear that in mind, but will run us down kind of what we've got so far. And then Howard can see where he's out in the fantasy studio.
Will Betts [00:57:22]:
Okay. We're in Los Angeles in your current studio, surrounded by. Not very much, by the sounds of things. It's a pretty spartan affair. Your computer is a Mac studio with an M4 Max processor. Your intel interface is an Avid MTRX because it has a couple of preamps already built into it. You don't have any just yet. Your DAW is Pro Tools, which makes perfect sense as you've been using it longer than anybody for this.
Will Betts [00:57:50]:
For this kind of music. We're on to your six items. The first one is a Moog 3C for all of your prog duties.
Chris Barker [00:57:58]:
Keith Emerson's one. Are we gonna take Keith? Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:58:01]:
His exact one. One.
Chris Barker [00:58:02]:
Yeah, yeah.
Will Betts [00:58:03]:
Perfect. Your second item is a Yamaha GX1. We've somehow managed to find one of five that exist in the world. For your third item, you have stolen George Harrison's 12 string Rickenbacker 330.
Howard Benson [00:58:16]:
Right.
Will Betts [00:58:16]:
For monitoring, you've chosen a pair of Yamaha NS10s with 10 backups with a Hafler amp. Your fifth item is an Aurotone, which, frankly, looking at this now, has. Howard, you might feel is a strange choice. And then your sixth item is a Sony C800G.
Howard Benson [00:58:35]:
Right.
Will Betts [00:58:35]:
How'd you reckon that's going to work for you?
Howard Benson [00:58:37]:
I think I'd switch out the Orotone at this point.
Chris Barker [00:58:40]:
4.
Howard Benson [00:58:43]:
What would I switch out the Orotone for? I think I would like to get a grand piano, actually.
Chris Barker [00:58:48]:
Oh, good shot. Any particular brand?
Howard Benson [00:58:51]:
Bozendorfer, Bosendorfer. 96 keys.
Will Betts [00:58:54]:
Okay.
Howard Benson [00:58:55]:
The big monster Yamaha have done very.
Chris Barker [00:58:58]:
Well out of this selection. They've got NS10s. They've got a GX and a Bosendorfer. Not bad.
Will Betts [00:59:04]:
Wow.
Howard Benson [00:59:04]:
Bosendorfer is. They have that extended bottom one with the 96 keys or something like that. That's the one I'd want, you know? Yes. So, yeah, I love playing piano.
Chris Barker [00:59:15]:
Oh, it has an extra lower octave.
Will Betts [00:59:17]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:59:17]:
Yes.
Chris Barker [00:59:18]:
Nice.
Will Betts [00:59:18]:
It's called an Imperial. The Bosendorfer Imperial Concert Grand. 9 foot 6 is $76,000. Sound about right?
Chris Barker [00:59:28]:
Yes.
Howard Benson [00:59:29]:
Yeah.
Chris Barker [00:59:29]:
Okay. That's what we want. That's a good trade for an orytone. Can I just say?
Howard Benson [00:59:34]:
I think so.
Chris Barker [00:59:35]:
Everybody would be happy with that wouldn't they? That's a good trade up.
Will Betts [00:59:40]:
So before we get onto the luxury item, let's talk about vocal chains because, you know, you've talked about how important the vocal is. Are you able to do all you need to do in the box with C800G just going into stock compression, stock EQ, all of that kind of business?
Howard Benson [00:59:54]:
Yeah, I think so.
Will Betts [00:59:56]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [00:59:56]:
Yeah, yeah. I could just. I think in the box there's so many choices. I would just put it on the input channel and just gently compress it. I don't like to compress a lot. And really the neve that I use here is just to warm it up. It's not even E. It's not even on.
Howard Benson [01:00:14]:
It's. I mean, it's on, but it's not. It's like just a preamp. That's it.
Chris Barker [01:00:18]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [01:00:18]:
So It's. There's no EQ or nothing like that. It's an, you know, old 10 7. What does this thing hatch? 1084. 1084.
Will Betts [01:00:26]:
Oh, nice. Yeah.
Chris Barker [01:00:26]:
I think we need to give you a little bit of a shout out, Howard, as well, for not choosing your own plugin. Yeah, it's one of the items. But do tell us a little bit about your plugin.
Howard Benson [01:00:34]:
Well, it's a vocal plugin, which you would imagine.
Chris Barker [01:00:36]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [01:00:36]:
And it seems to have gotten very popular, which is nice. And it's basically got pretty much everything I use on my vocal chain, which is a delay reverb. Put a multiplier in there, which is. We have a separate plugin that's called a multiplier as well, which is that part of the chain, but expanded into many more parameters. The multiplier basically takes the sound, adds a sample and hold circuit to it, like an old synth. This is actually interesting and uses sample and hold technology to generate random numbers. And the random numbers generate random vocal changes in pitch and amplitude. So when you.
Howard Benson [01:01:14]:
When you went gang vocals. This is because I love gang vocals. And I instead, like, if I could take your vocal, put it there, add 20 more voices to it, but have them all modulated by a random sample and hole generator.
Chris Barker [01:01:26]:
That is cool.
Howard Benson [01:01:26]:
So that sounds like a real gang vocal as opposed to just something that's a sine wave or a square wave or a sawtooth wave.
Chris Barker [01:01:32]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [01:01:32]:
Or something like that. So that's only. That's what it does, essentially. And so that's part of the plugin. And then there's a compressor on there and an eq. So that's it. And Joey Sturgis helped develop it with me. And it's got a really great compressor.
Howard Benson [01:01:44]:
Joey's great at compression. And I would say everybody I know uses it like. And they use it on other things that I didn't even plan on, actually, like guitars and drums and, you know, it's just like. It just kind of like one size fits all type of thing. We're making one right now for the stereo bus, actually.
Chris Barker [01:02:03]:
Okay.
Howard Benson [01:02:03]:
Howard Benson, stereo bus thing plugin, which you guys are the first one I told about.
Chris Barker [01:02:07]:
Exclusive.
Howard Benson [01:02:08]:
About halfway through the development.
Will Betts [01:02:10]:
Nice.
Howard Benson [01:02:10]:
And so there'll be three plugins. That one, the multiplier, which is the expanded version of the one that's in there, and the stereo bus thing.
Chris Barker [01:02:17]:
Awesome.
Howard Benson [01:02:18]:
And it's all Joey Sturgis tones. That does it. He's a really good developer.
Chris Barker [01:02:22]:
I'll definitely be checking out that sample and whole thing. That sounds cool as hell for dance music as well. Yeah, very interesting. Well, as we get towards the end and you've got one more item, which is the luxury item. So this is. Can be anything you can dream up, but something you would love to have in your studio. Luxury item.
Howard Benson [01:02:40]:
Does it have to be in the studio?
Chris Barker [01:02:41]:
Yes, it's something for the studio. But it could be an extra room. It could be. But you get all your friends and family, your pets. Now. This isn't an apocalypse situation unless you really want it to be.
Howard Benson [01:02:51]:
Can I have a private jet?
Chris Barker [01:02:53]:
Oh, okay. Yeah, I suppose you can repair them as well, so not a problem. Quite easy.
Howard Benson [01:03:00]:
Yeah.
Chris Barker [01:03:01]:
Okay. I like the plane chat. Do you know what you have in G6G? What are they? I don't even know then.
Howard Benson [01:03:07]:
Yeah, whatever the highest G is. Whatever the highest G. Yeah, yeah. Completely decked out with all the stuff I just mentioned in it.
Will Betts [01:03:15]:
When you say a G, what are you talking about? Stuff.
Chris Barker [01:03:17]:
Stuff in the beginning that's a type of private jet. The G6.
Howard Benson [01:03:20]:
Private jet.
Chris Barker [01:03:21]:
Like a G6. You know, like a G6. Look at Will. It's like talking to your granddad.
Will Betts [01:03:26]:
I just hope they'll be on a private jet, that's all.
Chris Barker [01:03:28]:
There was this band and they had a song called like a G6, which.
Will Betts [01:03:31]:
Oh, it's a Gulf stream. You talking about Gulf Stream?
Chris Barker [01:03:35]:
Yes.
Will Betts [01:03:35]:
Okay, sorry. Right, right, right.
Howard Benson [01:03:37]:
And I would take everything we just talked about in the studio and put it in there.
Chris Barker [01:03:41]:
I think they're on. Are they on G8? G7. That's definitely a G7 now.
Howard Benson [01:03:46]:
You should see some of them. They're just amazing.
Chris Barker [01:03:48]:
Yeah.
Howard Benson [01:03:48]:
Or that I would get you know, if I could really get. I'd probably get the. Whatever that guitar wants to get. Give Trump that big ass plane. They want to give him the 747 they decked out for him.
Chris Barker [01:03:58]:
Yeah. And that's probably got loads of recording devices already in it, so that's useful.
Howard Benson [01:04:04]:
That's funny as fuck, dude. That's good off the top. Yeah, you're right. It's full of recording devices.
Chris Barker [01:04:11]:
Yeah. So you won't need any microphones. It's absolutely full of them. Yeah, great.
Howard Benson [01:04:15]:
They're probably taking urine samples from them too, you know.
Chris Barker [01:04:18]:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yes. Use the bathroom as much as you like. Right. Well, that brings us to the end of the podcast. So all that's left to say is thank you so much, Howard. We've had a real good laugh and some amazing insights into production as well, so thank you so much.
Chris Barker [01:04:34]:
Howard Benson.
Will Betts [01:04:35]:
Thank you so much. Thank you, Howard. Well, all that's left to say is thank you so much for tuning in and we'll catch you next time for another adventure into studio Foreverdom. Bye bye.
Chris Barker [01:04:46]:
Bye bye.