Charlie Deakin Davies is a self-taught production prodigy, starting their professional career as a teenager recording in their shed. After proving themselves by becoming the youngest producer ever to get Radio 2 airplay, Charlie has gone on to work with huge artists like Fred Again, Laura Marling, and other podcast guests Gary Barlow and Ellie Dixon (coming next episode). But our guest wears more than one hat, and takes to the stage as Charlieeeee, a crossover indie DnB artist with a live show that’s driven by high-energy singable tunes, audience participation – and Beyblades. This time, learn what plugin chain Charlie uses for an instantly great vocal sound, how they survived having their laptop drowned the day before Glastonbury, and why they chose to record two simultaneous drummers on a monster live DnB session.
Charlie Deakin Davies is a self-taught production prodigy, starting their professional career as a teenager recording in their shed. After proving themselves by becoming the youngest producer ever to get Radio 2 airplay, Charlie has gone on to work with huge artists like Fred Again, Laura Marling, and other podcast guests Gary Barlow and Ellie Dixon (coming next episode). But our guest wears more than one hat, and takes to the stage as Charlieeeee, a crossover indie DnB artist with a live show that’s driven by high-energy singable tunes, audience participation – and Beyblades.
This time, learn what plugin chain Charlie uses for an instantly great vocal sound, how they survived having their laptop drowned the day before Glastonbury, and why they chose to record two simultaneous drummers on a monster live DnB session.
Season 7 of the My Forever Studio Podcast is supported by Audient, and the incredible new iD48 audio interface.
https://audient.com/
https://audient.com/products/audio-interfaces/id48/
STUFF WE TALK ABOUT (SPOILERS AHEAD)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piri
https://www.uaudio.com/products/apollo-solo
https://transcreativecollective.com/
https://atc.audio/professional/loudspeakers/scm45a-pro/
https://www.genelec.com/previous-models/1030a
https://uk.fender.com/products/american-vintage-ii-1972-telecaster-thinline
https://kmraudio.com/products/shadow-hills-mastering-compressor
https://makenoiseproaudio.co.uk/products/shadow-hills-mono-optograph
https://www.soundtoys.com/product/devil-loc-deluxe/
https://www.neumann.com/en-gb/products/microphones/ku-100
https://oldbloodnoise.com/pedals/p/reflector-v3
https://lunacy.audio/products/beam/
https://soyuzmicrophones.com/017-series
Chris Barker:
I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts:
And I'm Will Betts and this is the MusicTech My Forever Studio podcast brought to you in partnership with Audient and we're coming to you from Tyx Studios in London.
Chris Barker:
In this podcast, we speak with musicians, DJs, engineers and producers about their Fantasy Forever studio.
Will Betts:
The Fantasyland studio that our guests dream up is one that they will have to live with for the rest of time. But even in the world of studio foreverdom, we have a few rules.
Chris Barker:
Indeed, the rules. Our guests will select a computer, a DAW and an audio interface. Those are the three items that everybody gets. Then our guests will choose just six other bits of studio gear, plus one non studio related luxury item.
Will Betts:
There is one more rule though, isn't there, Chris?
Chris Barker:
Yes.
Will Betts:
No bundles.
Chris Barker:
That is right. No bundle.
Will Betts:
Choosing something sold as a package of separate software or hardware as a single item is not allowed.
Chris Barker:
That is right. This time we are joined by a prolific music producer who's worked with other podcast guests like Ellie Dixon and Gary Barlow, as well as Fred again, Laura Marling and many more.
Will Betts:
But our guest is just as comfortable, comfortable as an artist. And their latest project is a crossover indie D and B act with a stupidly fun live show.
Chris Barker:
Not only that, they are a huge champion of trans people and a co founder of the Trans Creative Collective.
Will Betts:
And we hear a big gear nerd.
Chris Barker:
Yes. Gear nerds we like.
Will Betts:
This is my Forever Studio with Charlie Deacon Davis, AKA Charlie.
Chris Barker:
Hello, Charlie. Welcome.
Will Betts:
Hello, hello.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Thanks for having me on.
Chris Barker:
Thank you.
Will Betts:
Great to finally get you. We were trying to get you on for a long time now, so this is great.
Chris Barker:
We finally made it happen and our suspicions right. You are a massive gear nerd.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
Excellent.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Drumroll, please.
Chris Barker:
Well, you heard a bit about the podcast and we're going to build this Fantasy Forever studio in a second. But let's start off about your journey into music making, how you became a gear nerd, you know, all of the facets of what you do, essentially. How did it all begin?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, I think I got into doing music how I think a lot of people did or like music production in the sense that like, I wanted to be a musician. So I actually got my first guitar when I was 11, so I was very lucky to have that. But an interesting thing about that was I hated other people's music and I literally didn't want to learn covers or anything. My guitar teachers had to basically work with me because I was like, I just want to write songs. That's like the only thing I want to do. And so my guitar teacher really generously just taught me how to do, like, chord progressions that sound good together, like concepts, fundamentals of songwriting. And so naturally, a really good building block.
Will Betts:
Isn't it incredible?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And so every week I'd have to come with a song I'd written, and I had to have used new chords, like, when I'd done that. So it, like, made me see the guitar as, like, an extension of creativity rather than, like, a finite thing that you have to do, because I didn't do grades.
Chris Barker:
And was there a reason you chose the guitar, or was it chosen for you, or.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Oh, just. It's the coolest, right? Yeah, it's the coolest.
Chris Barker:
It's hard to look cool sat down behind a piano or a keyboard.
Will Betts:
Oh, not as cool as cool. Yeah. Keytar.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. The ultimate solution to looking cool.
Chris Barker:
It is weird with the keytar, how to try and somebody's obviously gone. We just can't stand up with it. We need to make it cooler. And it's done the opposite.
Will Betts:
I don't know if you push up the sleeves on, like, a white suit or a pink suit. I think you look pretty cool.
Chris Barker:
I was actually on the COVID of Future Music magazine, not my face, holding the Roland keytar in a white suit for one of our shoes back in the day.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Wow.
Chris Barker:
Cause they would.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
We didn't have a blueprint.
Chris Barker:
We didn't have them. No, I was. I was imitating that idea, that image that you said. We just was like, well, it's a keytar. Let's just have the. Hit the nail right on the head with it. Yeah. Anyway, so.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, so you actually chose it. That's what I mean. You didn't.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Sometimes people are forced at school, depending on what instruments are left and things like that.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
No, I just. My dad had, like, guitars and stuff like that, so I think I was sort of like, well, that's naturally a thing that people do. Right? Like, that's just. It was just a rite of passage. And then, yeah, in my confidence, I was just like, well, obviously the next step is to start a band. And I was really lucky that there were, like, children in my school that would get in other music lessons. So I just, like, made a band up.
Chris Barker:
How long between learning the instrument and having a band?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Oh, my God, like a day.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like, the guitar meant I started the band.
Chris Barker:
Three chords, you go, that's it. I've got it. When's the first gig?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I used to write all the songs and everything, like, all the parts, like, for even Though again, don't know where I got this and we used to gig and everything, but we used to do. The band name still makes me laugh to this day. We were called Loud Wednesdays because we did band practice every Wednesday and it was really loud.
Chris Barker:
Not a bad name.
Will Betts:
That's a pretty good name.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Thanks.
Chris Barker:
How did. Not doing covers. Did you not do covers in the band?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
We did do some, but it was mostly just music I wrote and then we just. I've got to give credit to the other band members. Like it was a collaborative process.
Chris Barker:
You hate doing the covers.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It was not. I don't know. Yeah, I didn't really like it. It felt like homework. When I had to learn a cover for the band, I was like, why are we not just playing our songs? But yeah, I don't know. I think it basically it got me into like the understanding of multi layering, conceptual paths and things like that. And I got to do live shows as well. So I got.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Got the bug really early on of like this understanding of like creating music and then how it responds. Live was something that has been the core of like everything that I've done, like up and even up to the Charlie project. Like, that's the core of like what I like about music really. But moved on a couple of years and then I made another band and it was like at the height of Mumford and Sons and Florence the Mach and everything like that. And we were like in this little folk band and we ended up doing pretty well. We ended up getting scouted by island when we were like 15. So off SoundCloud. It was the era.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It was the era of SoundCloud.
Chris Barker:
It works though.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, definitely. Like, I don't know, it was just. It meant that we had this incredible experience where we got to go to when the Universal building was in Kensington and basically they had an underground recording studio which called Submarine or something. Ironically, it flooded.
Will Betts:
Wow, that's normative determinism for a studio.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But when we were in the process of recording, we did multi tracking, because you do. And my brain exploded. I was like, oh my God. You can play a part and then play another part over it and then another part and you can make a song like this. Because all I had done before is I had to keep making bands because I wanted multiple things to be played.
Chris Barker:
Sack all your band mates immediately. Sorry, guys.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're done.
Chris Barker:
Done. No need for you lot anymore.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, literally. I mean, that isn't what happened. Like. But then I was like, oh my God. And then I'VE said this so much, but it's so. It's so true of what I did. I was literally over the shoulder of the engineer going, what does that button do? What does that button do? What does that button do? And like, that's how I kind of like really got this second bug for engineering and music production, which then again, I always saw music production as an extension of songwriting. So like.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And then when I found out that you could like use equipment to make different sorts sounds, I was like, oh my God. So, yeah, that was like a whole chapter there. Which then led to like future elements as well.
Chris Barker:
So when did you first start recording yourself or recording and producing your own music? What you would say was your own music?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Okay, so in the spirit of like studios and like this whole theme, picture this. There's a glorified shed at the bottom of garden. It's got a red carpet. Each wall is alternate painted yellow and purple. There is a mirror that is 7 foot long on one side and a giant red sofa that matches the carpet. There is lasers and strobe lights attached into the ceiling. And then like surround sound speakers in this. I don't really.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I guess it's like a man cave really, but like a very colorful one. I'm sat with a bedside table, like a little draw unit with my Beats laptop on a beanbag with two speakers. Using audacity to have to track down me, like writing my own songs. But audacity has such bad latency. You would have to like either ignore the thing you were listening to and just carry on playing it, or like move it over. And that didn't deter me from doing music production. I was like, this is my life. I've.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I've found myself. I found myself in this like, environment.
Chris Barker:
So that's anything you recorded then that people can hear now.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Do you know what? I actually recorded something that I was still in the band at the time. This was like a personal thing. And it ended up getting played on like indie radio station this one because my mum submitted it for me to this like, thing or whatever. It caused such a stir in the band. They were like, you're splintering off from this, from our band. You're doing a solo project.
Chris Barker:
And I was like, the Audacity.
Will Betts:
Yay.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Nice. So I. Oh my God. Yeah, it was such, such terminal turmoil. The band actually broke up eventually, but not because of my splintering solo project. But yeah, it was, it was quite journey. But that's. Yeah, that's where I got into it.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But then I kind of Ended up having like an interesting progression into recording in general because then I did started recording the band and we did record a cover with or without you for the BBC Introducing show. Needed hints.
Chris Barker:
The rest of the band.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, I hope they never see this. Sorry Lucy and Rose. But yeah, we produced up that and then that was the first time that something I had produced ever like really got into the BBC. And I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting. I then upgraded my studio, right? I'm like, I need a table that's like, big move, big move. So I got a dining room table that's now my desk. I had, my dad had this little box that I can't remember what it's called, but basically converted two jacks into usb. But then I plugged it into a mixing desk beforehand so I could at least EQ the stuff.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I now understand. I didn't need to do that, but it made me much more confident with, you know, strong decisions over an analog chain going into a computer.
Chris Barker:
We're getting the sound right on the way in.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I would spend a lot of time eqing it and making sure the effects and what it wasn't having effects on it really. But like the EQ and the gain staging was correct. And even like, even like I learned how to do, I don't know this is a good thing or not, but I learned how to do like if I knew an artist was going to do a really big vocal thing, like I would say like stay on the mic and then I would pull the fader down like on that. So I was doing like vocal riding and stuff like that. And I was like, I don't know, like 16 when I was doing that. So like, I think I got like a lot of confidence with using equipment from a young age just because I didn't know what I was doing. Like, I just noticed I needed to do that because no one taught me how to do any of this.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like I just like learned it. And then at school we technically had a music production course, but like it was no shade to my school, but like I don't know what they thought they were doing. And we were on Cubase 5 and so I got a, like a second hand copy of Cubase 5 with the CDs and installed it on my Beats laptop. SHOUT OUT Beats.
Will Betts:
I didn't even know that was a thing. Beats did laptops.
Chris Barker:
Hewlett Packard collaboration.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Oh yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But it was, it was strong, it did what I needed to do. And then that's when I started Recording other people. And so me and my mum would go to open mics and then we would find an artist that we thought was really good. Well, I say we. This doesn't happen that many times, but like one time this happened. So we went. And then I was really in the folk scene because the band I was in was like a folk band and so just knew about a lot of like, things going on. So I spoke to this woman and I was like, hey, have you got any music recorded? And she was like, no.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And I was like, do you want some music recorded? And she was like, yeah. And I was like, well, come, come to my studio. So then we made a five track ep and it was really good because I just like, it was. I did it for free. It was just like really good exposure for me to like work with someone I didn't know and like, try be professional and like, learn how to be a producer. And so then I went to the open mic again like, you're 16? Yeah, yeah. Then go to another open mic almost. Maybe, maybe I'm 17 at this point, but like I was a teenager.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Then we go to the open mic again and then I went up to this other art and said, love your music, have you got anything recorded? And they were like, no. And I was like, well, here's an EP I've done. I charged ten pound a song. Do you want to come do an EP with me? And she was like, yeah, of course. So then we record this ep. I'm pretty proud of it. I'm like, this is really good. And then I used that £50 to get a better microphone.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I then go to the open mic again and then I'm like, Hi, I've done two eps. Do you want to produce with me? I charge 20 pound a song.
Will Betts:
Oh, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And then I bought another interface. But in that time period, the second EP that I had done of the songs got played on Radio 2.
Chris Barker:
Amazing.
Will Betts:
Wow.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And so then I became like one of the youngest producers to have a Track on Radio 2. And then that really set me up for like, oh, maybe I'm not terrible at this. And this is before I knew about compression as well. So I was literally automating every wave audio, like of the vocal of the guitar and everything. Because it's. Because it's folk music. It's all about like the organic recording being done really well. And like I did additional production on it and added bits and bobs, but like, it was more about like just making sure it sounded incredible.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And so I would spend ages micing up the guitars in these different ways. I would spend ages. Like, I would do double tracks, but I didn't have two microphones. So I'd be like. I'd make them play it exactly the same again. Honestly, it must have been really meticulous, like, over the top. But it sounds. It sounded good.
Chris Barker:
It was on the radio.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So. Yeah. And so then I was like, oh, okay, cool. And then it kind of spiraled on from there, and then I moved on.
Chris Barker:
Until you were £200 a track?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, yeah, literally. And up. Yeah, Just incrementally was just, like, going up. Getting that BBC played sudden made me, like, a lot more official because people.
Chris Barker:
Were like, yeah, amazing.
Will Betts:
And so how many of these eps did you do in that period, you reckon?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, I think by the time I was 21 or something, I had released over 100 songs. So I was. It was like, what I did. But in the meantime, I got kicked out of school when I was 17. Quote, I was taking music too seriously.
Will Betts:
Wow, that.
Chris Barker:
That's such a weird diss, that, isn't it?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
How do you feel now that you've taken music so seriously?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It was great.
Chris Barker:
Good.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. I'm having a great time. Yeah. So it was quite an interesting thing. So then I always just chose, up until I was about 22, to just constantly upgrade that space. And there was a point where I was like, this isn't an official stat, but there was a point where I honestly was producing about 30% of the artists in, like, the Hertfordshire area. Because on BBC introducing, it became a joke that I had produced at least one song every episode. Episode, There was, like, an artist I'd worked with and it was like, they got a point where they just rang me into the episode to just talk about music production because I was just, like, produced everyone, like, yeah, it was.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Honestly, I was on such a high during that period of my life. Like, it was really, like, I felt so good. And then that's when subsequently, after that, I started winning awards for my music production and getting nominated for lots of stuff, because I ended up winning the NMG Award for Best Producer of the Year two years in a row. Like, when they introduced the award that I won it, and then I just immediately won it the next year. And then by the next year, I'd ended up getting a bigger job. And I just didn't even let myself be entered because I was like, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I just will win again. Like, not trying to just, like, by this Point I had got really.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I got charting music, and before it was slightly more local than that. So I was like, I think let's just let there be space, like for some other people. But yeah, it leads on to, like, another thing. But we can talk about that.
Chris Barker:
Well, I mean, what might lead us to the first thing of this sort of our format, really, of the Forever studio is what your studio would look like and where you would have it in the world. So don't think about equipment, but, like, you know, are you still into the shed vibes?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I think I would. I think my. Okay, so the vibe. I know that. I know.
Chris Barker:
I like the serious switch.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is serious. If I haven't do this forever, what am I feeling? Yeah, exactly. My main thing is that I don't want something to feel like a studio. I don't want anything to feel like a studio. I want something that feels like a natural creative space that happens to have equipment in it. But in regards to, like, the location of that, I feel like with the continuation of the fluidity of it, I do think somewhere in a city would be really nice, But I want it to not, like, obviously soundproofed and everything like that, but, like, I'd love to have, like, a green space outside of the studio, but also just somewhere that, like, you can just pop out. I mean, strong room is great for it because it's, like, so central.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And I'd really like the energy of, like, oh, I'm just gonna go get some sushi or something, like. And you can just do that. I really like that because you then see something on the street or if you're even in your head too much, there's so much going on that you instantly get taken out of your head. And I think that's really important when you're songwriting and producing and everything, where if you're too far into the countryside, I think sometimes, like, going outside can feel really nice. And it's grounding, but I don't think it's inspiring. I think it's calming. And it depends what you work on. I work on upbeat, hyper pop, drum and bass, indie music.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So being in the countryside is not directly like, what I want, but I do want to see green. Like, so. Yeah, I'm not picturing it. Like, one side is, like, onto the street, and then the other has got a garden. And I want, like, a big window that looks into the garden, like, on the side of the studio.
Chris Barker:
And which city?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
London. Yes, I know. It's basically. I've already got A studio in London. And I love it. I'm based at 1087 at the moment and I really like it there in Tottenham.
Will Betts:
Is it?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, it's really, like. It's really artsy and like, because it's a complex, right. There's like so many other producers, so you just bump into people, you hear stuff. Like the amount of times I've just heard something in someone else's studio and I'm like, yeah, okay, cool. I feel, like, invigorated now to like, go do something else.
Chris Barker:
So. So with that in mind, you. You prefer to go to a separate place. It wouldn't. You would never have a studio at home again.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
No, because even when I had it at home, it was still, like, separate. Like, I really don't like bedroom studios, which is gonna be really funny because Ellie is going to talk about the wonders of a bedroom studio. So, like. Yeah, but, yeah, no, I don't. I. I like the separation. I'm a massive, like, gamer as well, so I like gaming in my bedroom, but I don't. I don't know.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I like the separation.
Chris Barker:
So we'll get that space in the Locked into the Fantasy Forever studio, right?
Will Betts:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
So we've got a kind of. So should we say like you own strong room, but there's a big garden.
Will Betts:
Yeah, you're gonna turn the courtyard into a beautiful garden.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, let's do that. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It's the next natural progression for Strong Room. Right? Because it was a car park, now it's a garden bar. Like a garden beer garden.
Will Betts:
Yeah, you're rewilding Strong room. Yeah, yeah, nice.
Chris Barker:
But it's a separate location that you go to and we're in London, so. Okay, we've got.
Will Betts:
We.
Chris Barker:
We've got that locked in. Right. Okay, so now you get the three free items which everybody gets the computer daw and the audio interface. So tell us about the computer you're choosing.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I just want the most souped up MacBook going laptop. Yeah. Because I produce on the go all the time and like, I don't know, I just really like the freedom of it. I even like being able to sit somewhere else in my studio and like, do stuff. One of my favorite songs I produced recently, it's not out, but I literally produced in my bed. And then I ended up having a crisis because I was like, oh, my God, this sounds better than else I've recorded recently. Do I even need to be shelling out this much money for a studio? Like, if I can produce this in my bed, Like, I was Like, I even recorded the vocals just, like, into the microphone. It sounded so good, like.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And I was like, this is an identity crisis. But anyway, I carried on and went back to my studio.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Just sort of shelved the existential crisis. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
It's probably because of all your knowledge about the studio that you can do that, though.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, we'll take that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so funny. But, yeah, I. I'm not, like, I just want the best one. Honestly, the i9 chip was, in my opinion, better than the M Series stuff. Yeah. I mean, I've got an M1 Pro 10.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I don't know, whatever, Joby, and it's fine. But my i7, that. It was my first proper MacBook and that I got when I was 18 or something. It was secondhand back then. No laptop is compared to how good that one was. I could still use it now. It's just. It has just run its course.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like, it needs a new battery and stuff. Like, I have to. I remember I was doing a session with Perry and May Muller, and I. My laptop was overheating so bad, I had to put it, like, this way up, like, on the table. And then I was just pouring water down the back and it was like. They were just, like, horrified. And I was like, it'll be fine. And it didn't get water damaged.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like, I knew. I just knew that laptop was going to be okay, but that one also. So I had. Oh, my God. I was doing a talk somewhere, and in my bag I had my keys, which had my car keys, house keys, studio keys, AirPods and, like, special custom ear plugs, whatever, on. And as I was doing this talk, I put the keys on the top of my bag and went inside and someone stole my keys out of my bag. And it was the night before Glastonbury. And I was like, oh, my God.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And then someone gave me a Diet Coke. I'm addicted to Diet Coke. They gave me Diet Coke can just to be like, oh, that's so bad. I put it in my bag. Immediately, a pen pierces it, covers my laptop in Diet Coke and breaks the two USB ports and the charging port on my laptop. Again. This is the day before Glastonbury. I'm like, oh, my God.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
All of my stuff has just been, like, destroyed or stolen. Oh, my God. It was such a palaver. And then that's, like, when. And then that's that laptop that needed water poured onto it. The power randomly started working in, but the USB ports never did, which, as you can imagine, is A massive problem. But the process processing on it was so good. Like, it just.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It just had a bit too much. It had too many battles.
Chris Barker:
Do you find you ever hit a limit now with. When you're producing in terms of like track limits or plug in limits, do you ever encounter that?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I'm not hitting track limits, but processing honestly after 5 channel, so door wise, I'm logic and I stand by logic. It's. It's done me good my whole life. Like, other than Cubase 5. But I never had so much latency so early on in a project. Like, I literally have to just like commute everything. And then I love uad. So, like, currently I have an arrow.
Chris Barker:
Which I will talk about your audience face.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah. But so I'm running the UAD stuff as well and like an outboard or just like plugins and everything. And it. It just was not a problem on my other laptop and this one just like. Like the literal tracking is off by so much like the. It's not just like the delay that you're hearing. The actual tracking is off by like half a second. I'm not even talking about a mil.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I'm talking about half a second. I have to fully move it over by like a quarter of a bar.
Chris Barker:
Sometimes that sounds unbearable. It is.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And I don't really know what to do about it, so. And I've done like different processing efficiencies, deleting plugins that may be slowing it down.
Chris Barker:
Anyway, to figure it out really is uninstall everything and install one by one until it starts doing it.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. But obviously it's like you. Oh my God. Like, it was such a faff to even just get all my plugins over from the other laptop onto the new one. Like. Oh my God. Yeah. Anyway, I'm having a bit of a mer with that.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I didn't actually realize. Wow. Thank you for making a space for me to talk about.
Chris Barker:
That stressed you out. So. But selecting your audience face, you're gonna choose the one you've got right now or you.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, well, I mean, the reason why I would pick this one for the current stage of my life is because I don't. And forever and forever and forever.
Will Betts:
Oh, sorry. For your current stage life. Tell us though.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Okay, well, maybe I would go for like an Apollo then instead.
Will Betts:
But tell us about why you. Why the arrow for now?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, I don't normally track more than two channels at once, so. Because I'm just doing songwriting. Right. So, like, I have actually really recently got into plugging my Electric guitar in and then miking the electric guitar and then putting auto tune, keeping the mic far away and putting auto tune on the mic'd channel of the guitar. And he makes this really interesting. And then you pan it and you get really wide guitar sound, like straight away.
Will Betts:
So you're hard tuning it sort of like. Yeah, like t. Painy type.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like. And because it's. Then it creates like a slight phasing effect, like, whilst it does that. So anyway, that's just something I've just been trying out recently. That's really. Yeah. It came from me just wanting to record and sing at the same time, just so that I was recording an idea down and then I just didn't sing and then I listened and then because I had auto tune on, because I was meant to be singing and then I was like, that sounds incredible.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like, that sounds so cool. So studio Happy Accidents. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Bill Cohen style.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. So you'll hear that in the next songs that come out.
Will Betts:
But amp. You're miking the amp or are you just miking strings on the guitar?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, like Bearmine. It's an electric guitar, so it's not got that much resonance, but it just. It's a different. It's got like this different top end. That was just really nice to play with.
Chris Barker:
Interesting to do with an electroacoustic, though, wouldn't it? Have the di.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I did it as well. I do it with my. I do. And then I. Then I was like, oh, I should have an electroacoustic. Sorry. I mean, your idea was original.
Chris Barker:
All right.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah. But then it made like the thickest, this guitar wall that I had made, but not overpowering. You know when a guitar wall can just become too much. But it's like the tones felt good because the mic also was quite high. So it wasn't getting a lot of the low frequency at the guitar, it was just getting this upper frequency. So it had a lot of brightness to it. So.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Quite spacey and weird as well with that auto tune poly.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah. So it just. It's different. But the reason why I specifically like the arrow is I know that there's other interfaces that have done this, but I've not used other ones that do this. I love. It's called. Got a. It's like facing you, like, rather than it being like a thin one, you like moment.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So it's got a big knob on it. But also I love the fact that you just smash it and it just mutes what's Coming through. So if you're having feedback or anything, it's so obvious what to do. You just go dunk and it just like mutes it. I find that the actual like interface usability is perfect. I feel like I'm hacking the mainframe. It's like, oh, like oh, we want to, you know, use that microphone for something. I'm literally just like.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And then it's like, like the phantom power is going to the right channel and to the right thing. And like I find it. Oh, like oh, we need to pad this really quickly. It's like it has, it has literally the buttons you want it to have that you could possibly ever need, but not too many options. Like it's just like, oh, you know, got phase problem. Like we'll just change the polarity. Like it's just like oh, oh, I love it.
Will Betts:
And bus powered as well.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. And this is where it was really interesting live because I'm also an md. The musical director for the musical director. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Managing director.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. Of Charlie Dickin Davis Ltd. I guess I am. It's actually my company.
Will Betts:
On your tax return.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Double md.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. But because I won't go into the detail of like live auto tune and stuff like that. But often when you get into slightly more pro situations, instead of like just running it straight through your laptop, you have a separate interface and the Arrow is perfect because it does the onboard processing for like if you want to put like the auto tune into that. We use the Antares one usually it's got no latency and it's because it's bus powered. It's just like easy peasy. I mean I recommend getting a twin over the Arrow really because in that setting because basically you don't want any reason for the interface to cut out or like the laptop to do something weird and then it cut out because you need the audio to still carry on going through the unit. Because if you had a twin, at least it would be on bypass. But it's not on bypass on the Arrow because if the power's cut out, it's gone.
Will Betts:
It's gone.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So yeah, the auto tune would stop but at least you, the vocal would still come through anyway. But it's such a throw in your bag thing. Like I'm someone again, I've said earlier, like I don't want this strict line between studio and just creativity. And so having an interface that is just a plug and play, super easy to use. I just, I love it like is so good.
Chris Barker:
Alright, well we've got those locked in.
Will Betts:
We've got those locked in. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So we're onto our six studio items. So item number one, I think an.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Essential is a life size cutout of.
Will Betts:
Shrek that isn't technically a studio item.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Not if you don't try hard enough.
Will Betts:
Okay, look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put.
Chris Barker:
A note, a note for later and.
Will Betts:
We can come back to Shrek.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I think it's important to bring humor to the studio space. I think it's important to make sure things aren't serious and conversation starters are always welcome.
Will Betts:
Should we park Shrek for now?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Okay, fine.
Chris Barker:
Right.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
So you've got a MacBook Pro, a UAD arrow and logic Pro. But first item, before we get to.
Will Betts:
That, you said, you know how important it is to bring humor to the studio. Like that. That feels like a big. It's really in your music. You really hear the humor in your music.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Thank you.
Will Betts:
And a lot of people take the studio very seriously. And a lot of these sort of the big studios, you can go in there and feel, oh, we're doing something really serious. And what you're saying before about making it so that it's sort of a non studio.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Like, how important do you think that is for the people coming into the studio and for them knowing that you're something different when. In terms of a producer working with them.
Chris Barker:
I'm gonna add to that. And did. Is that. Did you have to do that when you were, you know, using audacity and working with folk musicians? Because you must have had a. It must have been quite difficult in that situation because you want to come across as serious because you're literally just approaching people and saying, hey, let me record your music. But they've never been recorded before, a lot of them. So you don't want them to make them feel.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I would say that I feel like I started more pro and then have learned what was useful about that. And then you don't need to like what I wanted to unlearn from it as well. But it's also just really useful to have the skill set. It's like some sessions, it's really appropriate. You need to be very professional, very like people are expecting a certain service. And then other times you need to be more creative. And I think one of the biggest differentiators for me is the session if whether or not I'm producing something specific and engineering something specific or if I'm doing a writing session and we're like coming up with ideas.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So like in the writing production space, I Want to do writing production sessions. That's when I want it to be just really silly. But then if I'm like, like, okay, we're doing a vocal tracking day today. Like, I want it to be fun, but we need to like, you can't keep laughing into the mic, so I need to not make you laugh.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I guess if you make it fun on a writing session, you're trying to get, let people feel loose, like they can say anything and those ideas will eke out.
Will Betts:
And something we talked about before we were recording is the difference in studio vibe pre and post. Covid as well.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
How do you feel that's changed?
Chris Barker:
True.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, again, I think like a really interesting element of it is like before COVID and the lockdown and everything, I think we still lived in the older age of traditional engineering. So like you would have the process of being an assistant or you know, literally being like a T person, then being an assistant and doing all of this stuff up and it just. The only variable is the amount of time you spend. There will be. And when someone resigns will be the only reason you can go up in the chain or you have to move studios or find out someone else has resigned here or there or whatever. And then with production it's slightly less clear, but you would still maybe learn under somebody else and learn how to like go up that way. But I have always done things differently. Like even.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Even going to the open mics and just finding people and just telling people I'm a producer. I mean, that was like a huge thing. Like I'm just like, I'm a producer. And they're like, all right, kid, like, you know, kind of stuff. And then they would listen and they'd be like, oh, damn. Actually, yeah, they are a producer kind of thing. But I think that there was that energy. And then what it meant was, is when I was pretty young coming up through this, my peers were all in their late 20s, early 30s, and I was significantly younger than everyone because, yeah, I'm like the young.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I was like the youngest music producers guild member as well because I joined when I was 17 and like that whole world really taught me a lot of etiquette, a lot of expectations, a lot of attitudes to why people who are older would have a certain way about how things should be done. And I think, I think it's been very interesting post Pandemic because I think the amount of self producing artists and just produce bedroom producers has like exploded beyond belief. Like, I definitely think it's maybe like five to ten times more producers than there was because of the fact that it's so accessible now and equipment is so much easier to get. Like you don't need more than a laptop or 2i2 and headphones and a microphone. You just don't. And it's proven. But it's like, I think it puts into question of like, why do studios exist? What is the ethos behind it? What were the advantages of that time period? And I feel very lucky because I'm 29 now that I got to see this other era because there was a magic to it. There was a magic in collaboration, there was a professionalism, there was this like, you know, like amazing prestige you felt about being in these studios and understanding who came in before and why they were there.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And I think it's been very nice to start sharing that energy with younger producers that I work with because they just have no context on that. Like, and why would they. They don't need to. They're producing tracks are doing a lot better than mine. Like it's not, it's not one way, it's not better than the other. But like, I do think that there were some really nice things about that time period and it's, you know, sharing that even though I did not follow the path anyway. Yeah.
Will Betts:
So still self taught, still doing it off your own back, you know, all of this stuff.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
That's such an interesting point though, about people who have been producing through Covid not having any of that context. They're going, this is how it can work as well if you're collaborating well.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I think it, I think it's nice because we live in an incredibly casual era and I think that's really nice. I think people are much more free. I think ideas come up more easily and things like that. But I also think that there was something about getting a buzz of stuff. There was something about being a bit nervous before the studio. And I'm not saying people don't get nervous before going to the studio now, but there was something about like, oh, like I would get like a moment before I was like, I've got an artist coming in today. Like it's like a big deal and obviously I've just got older and I've done it a million times now. It's not got the same thing when I'm then doing a bigger session, like say I am at strong room or in the main room at 1087 or something and I've got an artist coming in because I've, like, decided to go for a bigger studio for that session.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It is like. And I think bedroom producers don't get that feeling.
Chris Barker:
Does that mystique with the gear as well, like, that we've had. You know, people have talked about before with, like, going to record a vocal at a studio, knowing that XYZ person has sung through that microphone. And it's like, I'm stood in the same spot, spot in the same. And it can give you a certain.
Will Betts:
There'S magic in the walls sort of thing. Or in this piece of gear.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, we had it with the tcc, which is the trans creative collective we ended up launching because we did a collaboration with Abbey Road for trans day visibility in like 2022 or something, which is. I think it might have been 2021. It was like, really long time ago, like in the. In. I don't know, lots happened, right?
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But there was a moment where, like, Andrea was singing into, like, the mic that Amy Winehouse had used for this recording. And it was just like on the piano and all of these other amazing people. And it was just like, there is an energy. There is an energy in studios. There's a. This is a point. There is a purpose to this space being like this and it literally. I don't know, it literally gives me chills.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like, it's like there is something so special about it because I love engineering and I love, like, the progression of everything. I think people don't realize how young the music industry is and the recording music industry is as well. Like, people act like it's this institution and it's like the contemporary music industry is about eight years old and then like. Or like, really, like four or five, if you count, like, post pandemic. But also, like, the actual process of recording music is not. It's like one generation. Like, you know, like our grandparents were around when the first recordings were happening. Like.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, I don't know. And I just. I think there's something special, especially places like Abbey Road and some of the older studios, because it's like they've had to keep up with the technology every time. Like, we always have to keep up with what's.
Chris Barker:
Without losing that magic.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, exactly. And then when you have places and ways of things are recorded that like, they're never going to be recorded like that again, and it's like, wow, it's like a time capsule. So. Yeah, anyway. Wow. I'm really passionate about studios.
Will Betts:
You said the contemporary music industry is only a few years old.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
What do you mean by that?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, I mean literally the amount of self producing artists completely changed the way that engineering and production works in the commercial space. Like you just don't need producers, like hardly at all. You still need mix engineers. Like they're probably the mastering and mix engineers are probably more useful. But like, God, like being a producer is like it's really relevant because a lot of the artists that are emerging don't know how to produce. But you have to be very good to stay in the scene. Because also if an artist can produce the music themselves, they're not going to pick a song they kind of like that they co wrote with someone. They're going to pick the song they love that they did themselves.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And so it's like, I think it's forced producers to be a lot more innovative but I think it's put a weird pressure on us as well. Like I don't work on that many like full time projects now because everyone's working with a different producer or working with themselves or they just need help with this one thing. Where before it used to be like, oh, I used to get this, like, I mean, I think I'm gonna get it again. Like I just. Because I then deviated into musical direction for a while and then I became an artist. I just haven't had this in a long time. But I love sitting down with an artist before we've started recording anything and going like, what are we doing? What is the energy? What are we trying to achieve? And then like rather than, rather than.
Chris Barker:
You being brought in as somebody who is great at a certain specific thing that they're struggling with. Top line or.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Harmonies or guitar or like.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's something I just like, I just love it. And knowing that you're like, this month is dedicated to this artist and it still happens and stuff. But I think to hire a producer is so expensive. Right? Like to hire a producer specifically to just categorically produce an album, just. It does happen. But it's not the same. It's just not the same as back in my day.
Chris Barker:
But it is like when, you know, people say, you know, the credits on albums and the amount of people involved, it's for that reason because they work for one song or.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Parts of a song. It's not, you know, or just the vocal or tiny little things. So the end project is, it's full of lots of different people with lots of different skill sets. Whereas it used to just be the producer.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Literally is going to make the album artist's vision come to life on budget.
Will Betts:
Yeah. On budget.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, on budget.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. I mean, like even I would say one of the other biggest expectations as well is like, you do need to be an incredibly good mix engineer as a producer. Like you, you always did. But before, like you were. You would be okay if you sent a bit of a rough mix out because people like, don't worry, the mix engineer is going to mix it. But now, like at the end of the day, I mean, I know this in the. I think what I'm probably experiencing is the upper. Upper professional level of this because I was in an intermediate professionalism before the pandemic.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. The song needs to get done that day, the whole song. And the artist may have been having an off day that day. You still have to get the. You might be having an off day. The whole thing needs to be fully produced so that no one has to use their imagination at any stage of what that song sounds like. And it needs to sound like it could get released tomorrow because you're battling against other people that can do that. Like the level of production skill has gone up so exponentially in the past five years.
Chris Barker:
Well, it's the same as. Even if you're trying to break through as an artist early on, you know, to everybody. Listen. Anybody's listening to this that's trying to do that. It used to be, you know, a demo on a cassette or a CD or. It was a demo. The word demo doesn't really exist anymore.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
No.
Chris Barker:
Like if you're approaching a label, it's like, is it finished? Well, you can't go to them, go, well, I just want your help. No, let us know when it's done and then we might talk about, you know.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Working together.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. I mean, like, I won't go. This is like one of my special interests. I won't go into it too much. But like even just the music industry as a whole, like even one of the biggest changes that happened with Universal and the massive mergers last year and stuff like that, the knock on effect has been absolutely massive. Like actually in the production and the artist world. Like again, because I'm so. I'm assigned artist to Sony, so I am seeing it from that side.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I'm also an active producer writer as well. So I'm seeing it from the other side and. And an md. So I'm. I feel like I've got a bird's eye view on like what's happening in the major label industry at the moment. And it's. I don't Think it's scary. I think some people are scared, but I also, again, because I like music industry history, I'm like, don't worry.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
This is just, just the analog to digital transition. This is just the, like record to tape transition. Like, don't worry. Like, we're just having one of those, like.
Chris Barker:
But along the way, lots of people fall out of way of that, you know, tape hops, you know, tape operators and lots of people amongst the business. That's why it's scary for some people, because they don't know whether they're going to be on the chopping block of these changes.
Will Betts:
And is that the scariness, do you think that people are feeling?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I don't want to have a big chat about AI, but obviously AI is like the next chapter of this whole thing.
Chris Barker:
But people had that fear when synthesizers came in, literally.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Or just the fact that you can have doors.
Chris Barker:
You don't need an orchestra anymore. Musicians union, you know, they're not going to hire the orchestra because they could do it on a keyboard.
Will Betts:
Exactly. Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And that did happen.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But it doesn't matter like that. Well, it matters. I'm not saying that it's an unfounded fear. Change is about to happen and change is happening. Change always happens. And when you choose to work in an industry that is on the front line of innovation, of technology and media consumption and social culture, you. That is, I think it's like the highest changing technology and cultural thing that there is. So I think people need to go in eyes wide open if they've chosen that career.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, it's scary. Your job might get taken away, but like, work with it. Like, can you use AI? Can you do this stuff? I don't know. You'll have me on the podcast in like 10 years and I'll be like, I'm homeless. To like get back on my feed after that podcast.
Chris Barker:
Item number one, a bundle of sticks.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Sorry, I just.
Will Betts:
Okay, no bundles. Let's get out the way.
Chris Barker:
You were a bit slow on the. On the trigger there, Will.
Will Betts:
Yeah, I was.
Chris Barker:
I feel like that was a test to see how quick you are.
Will Betts:
It was a test, wasn't it? I failed.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, you didn't fail. You're on your own path.
Will Betts:
I can see how nice it'd be.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Being in the studio over philosophical.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
ATC speakers would be like my first choice. I've.
Chris Barker:
Which ones?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I've put down the SEM 45Cs, but I don't have like an emotional attachment to that name. It's just the ones that are at 1087.
Chris Barker:
And I don't have any emotional attachments to any speaker names because they're always mental.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. I don't want to be misquoted that it's that one, but I wrote that down, you know, like. Well, you know, like, you know, like, you know an NS10 and like, you know, you know what I mean? Like there's some. But like, I don't know the model.
Chris Barker:
But it's got out of handling, isn't it? SCM 45, A45C 45 Pro 45.
Will Betts:
Yeah. The A's are the actives, I think, but the Cs. Yeah, I think it's a great speaker. Cs are great. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Big ones.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Big ones. Not the massive ones. The ones down from the massive ones.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Like the sort of not quite near field, sort of midfield. Midfields, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had two speakers actually. Three drive. Three drives and a tweeter.
Chris Barker:
But they're that kind of focal 6b shaped as in there. Yeah, they're on the sideways from the traditional speaker.
Will Betts:
Yeah, big.
Chris Barker:
That's how you know they're serious, isn't it?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
What, do you not remember that? I always think of that when I was growing up, like somebody had their speakers on the side. Oh, this studio now, like the NS10.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Style, it's not hi fi, it's a studio. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Hi Fi. Yeah, studio.
Will Betts:
Oh, that's right. Yes. Good try.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I thought you were a professional.
Chris Barker:
Your speakers on the side, this is a studio. And now they make them custom sideways like that. So, you know, so if anybody comes in, they go, oh, you make music. You've got your speakers on the side.
Will Betts:
When you say custom make them, you mean flip the badge 90 degrees.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Yes. That's it.
Will Betts:
That's the one change.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, you can do that yourself. And it makes them look more pro.
Will Betts:
Your journey with ATCs then why these ones?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So they have them at 1087. So that is where I got a lot of exposure. And then they also have them at strong room as well. So there's three studio. Well, there's four studios. I spent a lot of five studios. Okay. I've been in a few studios like as in like consistently.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Obviously I've been in like loads, but like the ones I consistently worked in. So at 1087 I'm just in the big room a lot there. I actually have like a pair of General X. I have the 1030A currently and I had KRKs before that, which did me great.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, not on Their side, though, are they?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
They're not on their side. Oh, come on. Looks like I'm going to be doing that later. And then I. I had some just massive Adams when I worked at a different private studio. I don't know. I'm talking between Genelecs and ATCs, basically. We've also got some massive PMCs as well at the.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
At 1087. But I don't want massive speakers. I want speakers that sound like the song. So I could actually like.
Chris Barker:
Okay, you find big speakers over.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, they're just. Especially because I do drum and bass. So it's like. Yeah, it feels. It feels amazing. But I'm like. I'm not able to produce the song accurately in this space where ATCs I just feel like are telling you what is actually the audio information that's happening. And although, like, I'm not necessarily always mixing stuff, as I said, like, the song needs to sound mixed, like, even if it is or isn't officially mixed.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So I just find that the clearest. And they've got really nice bass on them for not having subs and stuff. So, like.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, locked in.
Will Betts:
Nice. Good choice. Your music, it's, as you say, drum, bass, jungle. Like, wouldn't be tempted to have something bigger just to kind of blast it, I think.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yes. Like, I would like. I mean, if I had two set. If I had two sets of speakers, I'd probably get the PMCs.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like, as the absolute massive. Just.
Chris Barker:
You could have two sets. You've got six items.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I know. I've written down already got like 11.
Will Betts:
Okay. Right. Yeah, well.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Yeah. Okay, well then let's lock those ATCs in. Yeah, you were quite instinctive about it as well.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So, yeah. Item number two, I've got the guitar.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I currently have, which is a thin line Fender Telecaster. It's got double humbuckers on it. And I personally feel like it's got the widest range of tone. So I can get the like, tinny, like, Telecaster, like, sound. But then also I get the like, chug of the double humbuckers as well. Is the guitar I've had since I was 17. So I have like an emotional attachment. And it's also from the 90s as well.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So it's like. I don't know, I just really like it. The, the. The pickups are kind of broken now, but I don't want to get them recoiled because I'm just like, you might.
Chris Barker:
Lose something with it.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, there's something. There's something about it that I'M enjoying. So, yeah, that's. I think that's quite fundamental. I mean, like, the thing is, I've been doing this long enough. I guess I have a dream studio to the extent of, like, I've got what I need. Because, like, the other thing is, I've worked in all these other studios.
Chris Barker:
We can dial it up now.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah. I can make better versions of everything I've got. But, like, from working in these big studios and then having my own studio again, I'm just like. I've had my own studio for four and a half years now. That is in London. I have obviously had the. The Den, as we called it, which was the Shed. But this one is like, okay, what do I want? That kind of thing.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And I don't want a lot of stuff. I. I want a lot of guitars. I have five guitars and, like, different instruments in there because I want more options for tone. But gear wise, I'm not running a lot of stuff. Most of the time the vocals get retracted in a different studio anyway. So it's like, I don't need that much outboard. But that being said.
Chris Barker:
Okay, that being said, so we got the Thin Line Fender Telecaster.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay, so item number three.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I've got Shadow Hill Industry Compressor. But, like, I've only used the 500 Series 1. But is there a different. Is there a rack version of it or Is it just 500 series?
Will Betts:
There is a big rack one. The mastering compressor.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
It's a big £10,000 worth of kit.
Will Betts:
Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
That's what I want.
Chris Barker:
So, yeah, people watching and listening might be able to recognize it from the UA plugin. Right?
Will Betts:
Yes. Well, you tell us about it.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It was used in a vocal chain. I wasn't using it as a mastering thing. I was using it like in the chain. I loved it.
Chris Barker:
And the 500 series plugin. Okay, it's 500.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I think I love excessively over compressed vocals because I guess an honorable mention on this. I know that. I know there's a limit. I can only pick six things, but one of them is just the Devil Lock Delay Deluxe. I put on vocal chains and it is so good. It is so good. I. I think because I work in pop music, so vocals are traditionally really, really compressed.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And if you don't have the option of having a, you know, proper U67 into like a neve. Like, if you don't have the option to have that chain, but you want that really, like, rich, compressed tone, like the Devil look, Deluxe is amazing for it So I think I was essentially using this compressor to do that kind of.
Chris Barker:
To do that same job. So it does it better than the plugin.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
You would say, I know how to use the plugin better than I did the outboard gig.
Chris Barker:
You've got forever to learn this.
Will Betts:
So the 500 series that you used seems like it's a cross between the mastering compressor and the Optograph channel compressor. Is it a channel compressor? Unclear, but bit of both. So do you want to go for the big mastering compressor, then? And you can sort of use it as the.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, I mean, I guess. I guess my thought process is the one I've used. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I wouldn't mind a lunchbox. And then I could start having some 500 series stuff on there. No. Okay, well, can that be an item? Can the lunchbox be one of items?
Will Betts:
Yeah, it'd be an item.
Chris Barker:
It'd be empty, though, wouldn't it?
Will Betts:
Do you know what?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Just this. Yeah.
Will Betts:
I think we have allowed the power supply for a lunchbox. If you have one lunchbox item. That is one item.
Chris Barker:
I mean, you could fill it up with the other items, but. Yeah.
Will Betts:
So the Shadow Hills, the one that, you know, as opposed to the big.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I like the thought of having some 500 series stuff in general.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Okay, perfect. So we've got the Shadow Hills Industries dual van der Graaff 500 series.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
That's the one.
Chris Barker:
And the power supply lunchbox for it.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
You're bundling that. I will.
Will Betts:
I would say it's merely a.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It's quite a practical thing. What am I gonna do with just the, like, card insert bit of the back of the.
Will Betts:
Exactly. Just get a soldering iron and, you know, work some stuff out.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, but I don't know.
Will Betts:
So you were talking about Devil Lock before then.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Don't you find that distorts the vocals a bunch?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Not a bunch, just enough. So, again, I think is a lot of the baseline of what I'm producing is to get stuff over the line. And I think we live in an incredibly, like, compression and saturated vocal era at the moment. Like, very close to the mic and very, like, present. And I feel like just putting Devil Lock deluxe default setting just straight on that channel. Just literally does so much. Because a lot of the time, you need to be able to feel good about what you're tracking immediately. And if you play back what you've just heard, the artist needs to hear something that sounds good straight away.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I'm not saying it's the best vocal chain in the world because there's so many other things that you can do. But again, if you're trying to do low processing, quick turnaround immediately. Sounding good. Yeah, it just does.
Chris Barker:
And Double Lucky sound toys, right? Just for listening in.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So, yeah, so it's pretty accessible for everybody.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Unlike the Shadow Hills.
Will Betts:
Unlike the Shadow Hills.
Chris Barker:
The Shadow Hills is quite fancy, right?
Will Betts:
But yeah, yeah, it's about three grand for that series.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Fantasy Studio.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, Fantasy Studio. That's what I'm saying. So. But I think I would use that in the context of the Devil Lock because. Because it would do this harder compression thing. The other thing as well is it again, we live in an incredibly fast paced producer world right now that the artist doesn't have time to work out how they're gonna sing, like, how big they're gonna sing some notes, how quiet they're gonna sing other notes, like immediately. Like, you might come back and do a retracking session, but in that initial one, they don't know what they're gonna do. And so it's really good to just have something that's just gonna capture everything and make everything consistently sound good.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like. Like to a degree. Because my vocal chain digitally. I mean, again, this is a free item. So I don't know if this counts as like dream studio or whatever. It's the M. Auto pitch.
Chris Barker:
Oh, yes. Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Which is just the standard free thing I learned.
Chris Barker:
Is it Melda Audio or something?
Will Betts:
It's not a free item, but yeah, but free. Is it free in the world? Not in the context of the forensics.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
No, of course not. That would be dull.
Will Betts:
Like, I can't deal with any more rule bending here.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Again, you know, I'm someone who got kicked out of school. I don't play by the books. But yeah, that. So I mean, like, yeah, just my favorite chain. Just really quickly in Just logic is eq. Just like use the logic eq, just dip off some of the bass, the auto tune, obviously. Put it to whatever key you want. Devil Lock.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And then Echo Boy junior Default, default, default, default, all of them.
Will Betts:
What delay time are you doing?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like, just what it comes in at.
Will Betts:
Right.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I normally just turn the mix down a bit. That quickest way to just get like something that sounds really legit immediately in a. In a. In a session. And it's not hard on the processing either. And so you could duplicate the channel quite a few times. Like. And it's.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It's okay.
Will Betts:
Nice.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. Like I'm talking inserts. No buses inserts like straight up. Yeah, love that.
Chris Barker:
And you have that as a preset as well. So you can just be like, bang. Strip preset. Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I've like released music with that chain. Like lots of music with that chain.
Chris Barker:
That's top tip.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
That's a great tip.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Item number four.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Okay, I have a funny microphone choice, please. And then. Oh, no, I should have just said it and not told you it was funny.
Chris Barker:
Now we go. Don't laugh.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, no, no, no. Well, it's only funny if you know what the microphone looks like. Do you know the Newman Ku 100? Because this would be my dream microphone in the studio. I think it'd be so funny.
Chris Barker:
Oh, yeah, the head.
Will Betts:
The dummy head. Yes.
Chris Barker:
Okay, so it's the binaural head for people listening.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Imagine in the middle of the studio, there's just. You walk in and it's just that mic.
Chris Barker:
We've had it actually before. Maybe not as a vocal mic, but we've had it before. I think on. On the podcast selection. Right. For people going out and doing binaural stuff.
Will Betts:
I think we have. Isn't the dummy called Fritz? No, the dummy has a name. I'm pretty sure the dummy head has a name. I might have invented that. Maybe I've invented that. Sorry.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
That's so fair. But I imagine I've never obviously used it. It's a 10,000 pound microphone. Like, I'm not. I mean, this is my forever.
Chris Barker:
It's a stereo binaural thing. So it's got microphones in the ears.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. And it's got them in the head as well. Oh, has. It's got the one in the back. It's like, it's. I'm pretty sure I might be wrong, but it's definitely got them in the head and the ears. Like, I just want to capture the experience of a song. Right.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I'd be so curious if someone did use that as a vocal mic. Like sung at the dummy as if they were singing at it. Like, how would that actually sound? Like in rap?
Chris Barker:
Like a rap battle. It'd be quite good, wouldn't it?
Will Betts:
Terrifying.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Dress it as your enemy.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Oh, my God. You could do a duet, but like, oh, my God.
Chris Barker:
Or a duet. Dress it as Sony. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I assume this must have been done like a group of people standing around it, like, obviously. Because obviously you can put mics on Omni, but it's not the same. Like, this is, like, different.
Chris Barker:
Well, or you could get your earbuds, that classic one. You can use it the opposite Way around. If you've never done that for Binaural cheaply, you can do that.
Will Betts:
I've never done that, no.
Chris Barker:
So just use your earbuds and then invert the signal so they go from speakers to be in microphones.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, I don't know how to do that.
Chris Barker:
And then you put them. Just put them in your ears, but the opposite way. And then you've got you are head. So you could do that.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Oh my God, I'm gonna do that.
Chris Barker:
Then you could invite people to be the microphone as a session. Well, thanks for inviting me to your session.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
I've got some bad news.
Will Betts:
You're the microphone that feels like a weird patreon.
Chris Barker:
And they could open their mouth just to get different reflections.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Really thinking about this.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Can you imagine if I'm the producer on the session, I'm just gonna get the microphones up, I just put headphones in and then I just stand directly.
Chris Barker:
In front of them, really close.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah. You're like, okay, do the take note.
Chris Barker:
And you open your mouth. Just go out some more reverb. If you can sing right into my.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Mouth, I'll put darker sunglasses on you. Can't. You won't see me anyway.
Will Betts:
Just a normal thing. Just a normal studio stuff. It is called Fritz, by the way.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well done.
Will Betts:
Thank you.
Chris Barker:
Jokes aside, it's an amazing microphone. Right. It's like the industry standard for all the kind of binaural recordings and.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Are we locking it in or is that just a joke?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, now we're talking about it. It was a joke originally. You know, I love a cheap laugh or a very expensive laugh in this case. But like, I actually think I would really like it. I think it'd be. I think it would really challenge me in the same way. Like when I recorded that guitar with the other stuff, like I'd be really. I think I would try some interesting things out with a different mic.
Chris Barker:
It seems really strange, but actually it makes loads of sense because, I mean, it's that engineering trick, isn't it? It's like, how do I know where to put the microphone? Well, you hold the microphone by and that's when it sounds good to you. It's going to sound good to the microphone. And actually if you've got a head, so where your head is, okay, just put it there and then it's gonna sound good because it sounded good in my ears.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
For recording gigs or live musicians, it must be really cool.
Will Betts:
Yeah, must be amazing.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
So we lock in Fritz. Yeah, Locked in Love it. Item number five.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Okay, I've got old Blood Noise reflector pedal. I've already got it, but I don't.
Chris Barker:
Know what this is, so.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
They are incredible. They're so good. I genuinely like. I think it's really nice when you have a bit of gear that has like a lot of range to it, but it's very simple. But you can change up a lot of what you're doing. Like, it has like, the reflector has like different reverbs, delays, like pitch ups, like all of this stuff. But there's only four knobs. And so it's like you just gotta like find your right combo.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It's got like. I don't know, it's just really nice. The flatline light as well is really good.
Chris Barker:
It's a chorus.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, essentially, I guess, but.
Will Betts:
Oh, okay.
Chris Barker:
It's a weird reflector, but it's chorus.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I guess I've never thought of it as a chorus though.
Will Betts:
I really want to use it as a chorus.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I use it for like reverbs and like weird sounds and stuff. It's. Cause I think the upper limit of what it can. As in like the upper limit is really high. So if you put everything at max, like it's really different, like kind of snug.
Chris Barker:
So that's when you start getting longer reflections.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, I guess, yeah.
Chris Barker:
And the smaller reflections you get a chorusing effect.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, but those. I mean, I know that a lot of bundles, I've just picked one of them, but like. Yeah, that one and the flat light as well is like really good. I just like something that I can put in quite easily.
Chris Barker:
How. How much are we talking for this pedal by the way?
Will Betts:
Just like no longer in production, but on, let's see, on Reverb, you're looking at about 200 quid.
Chris Barker:
They're not crazy.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I didn't buy it for that much.
Chris Barker:
Quite expensive for a guitar pedal nowadays, but it's a, you know, premium one.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Doable.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I really like stuff. So I really like with my studio setups, the core elements to be as simple as physically possible. Like just bam, bam, bam. Like I don't want any faff around the core essential of recording. But then I love having really fun post processing stuff. So I also recently got Beam by Lunacy audio. It does so much stuff. So for instance, like you could play a chord and it will make this incredible orchestra of sound.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And it's so good for like warping sounds, making effects. So if you're like playing a little guitar riff or something, you can then just like put it through this and it will just make something that you've never heard before, like. Because obviously that's like, when you're trying to find innovative palettes and stuff like that, you do hit walls. And when you've already used all your gear and the essential elements fine or like good or whatever, it's like, what do you do to make something more interesting? And so I find plugins like that are really good. So I don't like. I don't like unique ways of doing compression. I want a compressor.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And then I want something weird like.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah, I get it.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Are you picking that as one of your items?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, I wasn't gonna because. Well, an essential one for me is little Alter Boy. That was actually on my like plugins list.
Chris Barker:
Okay, final item.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Oh, my God. For context, for the other microphone I actually had was the Soyuz, like 017 model. Have you seen the gold one?
Will Betts:
Yeah. Beautiful.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
That was. That was one of the nicest mics I'd use. Because the chain. The chain I used. The context was I had that microphone into a manly, massive passive. Right into a manly vox box.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Into the Shadow Industries compressor, then into Logic. And I was like, oh, my God. Wow.
Chris Barker:
Like, that's quite a high end chain, isn't it?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, it's just Soyuz.
Chris Barker:
Quite modern company.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yes.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
But made to look. Made to look vintage, I think.
Will Betts:
Made in Russia, actually.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
The guys who do that, there's an American chap and a Russian guy and they started a business. And I think it's old tool makers that make them.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
They are beautiful. I think again, there's something like we're saying about like the older school stuff, that there was something about things looking cool that made you feel like more like drawn to it.
Chris Barker:
That's everything in the world, isn't it?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Would you go for the. The tube one or the fet? Because they have two versions.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I have used both. I felt the FET was much easier to use. Again, I think I'm quite into a slightly more cleaner initial input signal to then mess up. So, like getting it.
Chris Barker:
Well, that kind of comes from what you were saying about the recordings back in the shed. It's like get it right on the way in and then then, yeah, I'm fine. Then I can use.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. I find the FET is just clear cleaner and I just had less genuine tube problems with it because I also. I also recorded loads with U47FET as well. Like loads of acoustic guitar stuff. And I found the Tone was like, a bit more dull than I wanted, but the tube version was way more duller. And so, like, I preferred the FET version of it. And then same like, I was using a U67 and I currently now have. Have a warm audio U67 model.
Chris Barker:
Like, it's funny that I think some people. Some people go into recordings with a fetish for, like, the kind of vintage fetish. Yeah, well, no, well, this is the thing. A fetish for valve and vintage and all of the. And then end up eqing and processing it to sound like recording. Oh, it's not bright enough. You know, just use the tool that gets you that sound. And yeah, it might not be as cool or, you know, if it's not vintage or.
Chris Barker:
But that's actually the sound you want is of software or is of, you know, a clean amp and, you know, you don't want all the hum and buzz.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, exactly. Like I said. Yeah. I don't want to be. I don't want to be cleaning up the signal. I just want the signal to be correct, like.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And I wanted to sound good. Like, I do like warmth. I do like the thing. I don't want it to be, like.
Chris Barker:
Bad, but it needs to be appropriate for the sound you're going for rather than doing it because you're, like. You've been taught that vintage is better or tube is better or analog is better. Better.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I think it was an interesting one for my transition from folk into pop as well, because I was very early stages when I was doing folk music, so I didn't have exposure to tube stuff, which I think would have been more appropriate, like.
Chris Barker:
But would it?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, I don't.
Chris Barker:
Maybe. Maybe the reason you got radio play and all of that. Who knows? Because you approached it for the song.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, I mean, I definitely had a clean production style that was like my thing. So, like. Like. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's an interesting one. And I understand a lot more about valves and everything like that, but when I had access in these studios to use any microphone, any outboard gear, I still chose the fets. I still chose the, like, straight chains. Like, obviously that particular one I was talking about, the Soyuz mic, I didn't use that one very often.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
That was just like, one time I tried that and I was like, oh, my God. In, like. My artist project is, like, Charlie, it's essentially me. But when I perform live, I love doing, like, live drum and bass and jungle. So my primary drummer is a drummer called Maxi Cheer. And they are Amazing. Maxi has been on the recording of my music. So essentially when I make the Charlie thing, which is like the drum and bass with guitars and stuff like that, I do use like samples and loops to sort of make the song get that energy, like translate it into something.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But then I actually go to the studio and I re record all the break beats. Well, I don't. The Maxi goes in and re records all of the break beats on top of it it so that I have this natural sound. And one of the really big things I care about a lot in songwriting and production is like dynamic building. And when you're just using break beats, you can't really do that. Like, you can do it through EQ and reverb and stuff, but you can't like, you can't get like that energy of a person, like playing the drums, like bigger and quieter and stuff like that. So on my Dog bowl ep, which came out last year, which was like. The first EP I put out was like Charlie, we did like a really interesting drum technique where.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Where we got two drummers facing each other. So one was Maxine, the other was Chrissy Lopez. And we mic'd up the whole drum kits and everything like that. And I have a song called Nervous energy that's at 200bpm and it's full break, full jungle, like kind of drum beat. So what we did was we got Maxi to play the fundamentals, like. Like the proper drum and bass, just like. And then we got Chrissy to play all of this, like the. Basically the toppers, like all the jungle toppers and everything.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
And then we recorded that in like at once with both. And it's a bold move to do because it's. Again, maybe multi tracking would have been better, but there's something about hearing like the double cymbals in the room, hearing this energy again. It's like I like doing stuff that's a bit different to create. Create like different tones and stuff.
Chris Barker:
So it's going to sound loads different to just layering samples.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, because I even liked hearing Chrissy's overheads in Maxi's drum kit and stuff like that. There was like. It was different ways of like mixing stuff off. So like, I didn't let Maxi play any cymbals and then Chrissy wasn't allowed to do any kick drum and so it was like. Then I could merge the sounds together and then. I don't know.
Chris Barker:
When you were mixing, did you have to, like, did you have to mute microphones or did you just let stuff run?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I mixed it with Alex Evans, who's a really good mix engineer. But we did mute a lot of stuff. It was ridiculous. It was like 17 channels.
Chris Barker:
So you have to go in and sort of perform the mix a little bit as well.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So actually what ended up happening was I got all the drum stems initially. I then made like a rough version so it wasn't over overwhelming, like with the palette. And then I think I condensed it down to six channels and then I sent that and that was like my choice. I comped everything, added everything together, and then I gave that to Alex and Alex that mixed it into the track a bit more.
Chris Barker:
Nice.
Will Betts:
And when you've got. They were facing each other, were they?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
So did you have to flip one drum kit to the perspective of one drum kit so they would lay over each other better?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I guess maybe. That's probably what we did. I just, like, I just had two. I just had both the kids facing each other. And then we must have done something with it left and right. I didn't engineer the session.
Will Betts:
Okay. Right.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Sanj, who works at 1087, engineered it.
Will Betts:
Oh, nice.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Okay. Obviously I was like involved in like picking the microphones and stuff like that. But like. Yeah, I don't know what we did. We didn't have any phase cancellation problems. So whatever happened worked.
Will Betts:
It worked. Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. That's really. Yeah, that's a good point, actually, because then. But phasing definitely worked better because it wouldn't be good having the two kits next to each other or anything. And I wanted the bleed between the two microphones because I wanted it to sound real. When we had a trash mic up, I mainly used that because then it just got the room of the two.
Will Betts:
Drum going between the two kids.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Amazing.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, that was. I don't know, it was just really. It was just really cool. Like, I guess in my dream studio as well, like, I'd want space to track drums.
Will Betts:
Right.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I would want to be. I like. I really like being in the room. Like, I don't like having a vocal booth. I don't like having.
Chris Barker:
Right.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Any booths. I just want it in the room. I want to be there as it's happening.
Will Betts:
That's the way to do it.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Feel it.
Will Betts:
Feel it. Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
All right, well, let's continue building the studio. Are we going to lock in Little Altar Boy as item number six?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I feel like the beam maybe should be the one instead of the.
Chris Barker:
The beam. Lunacy Audio.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. This is, I guess, the difference between Charlie Deacon Davis, the producer, and Charlie The Artist. Because Charlie the producer wants the beam. Sorry. Wait, Charlie? Oh, my God. Who am I? Charlie Deacon Davis wants the beam. Charlie wants Little Altar Boy, because all of my guitars, all the lead lines are all pitched up using Little Altar Boy. And it's like a specific tone I have.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I put a dry Telecaster, literally no processing, no amp, nothing straight into the arrow.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
With Little Altar Boy on. And that is the tone. So I. Because I'm really into, like, Vampire Weekend and, like, that kind of, like, really dry indie tone. So that's how I get that stuff. So as Charlie the Artist, I would be kind of like, oh, this is an identity crisis if I didn't have it. But maybe. Maybe I should be challenged.
Will Betts:
Well, so are you going with Lunacy Audio Beam, then?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's got more range. I could probably do Little Altar Boy in the Lunacy Audio.
Chris Barker:
You've got forever to figure it out.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, I do. So what? What? I mean, this feels like a chaos, chaotic group of things. What have I got then?
Chris Barker:
Here we go. So, Will, if you don't mind, let's. Let's. Let's go through the final selection. We can discuss if you want a change, but then we'll get onto the luxury item. Okay, so talk us through it, Will.
Will Betts:
Okay, we're in London. We've taken over Strong Room Studios.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Sorry, Jake.
Will Betts:
Sorry, Jake. We've turned the seating area in the courtyard into a. A green space. A garden. You've created a natural creative space, not a studio. And we've got big windows looking over this beautiful garden. Your free items. For your computer, you've chosen a MacBook Pro.
Will Betts:
Your interface is a UAD arrow forever.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Thanks for really making me feel confident in that decision.
Will Betts:
Great interface. DAW is Logic Pro 11. And for your items, you have chosen for speakers, the ATC SCM 45S. Your guitar is your very own Thin Line Fender telly with double humbuckers. For processing, you've chosen the Shadow Hills Industries Dual van der Graaff 500 in rack.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Why not?
Will Betts:
We'll allow it. For your microphone, you've chosen a Neumann KU100 Fritz dummy head in a first for the show, I think.
Chris Barker:
Is it a No? I think it's been chosen before, but not as the main microphone.
Will Betts:
It's a really bold choice. I love it.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Thank you. No other microphone? Just that. Just that it's got range.
Will Betts:
For your penultimate item, you've chosen the old Blood Noise reflector pedal. And your final choice, a first for the podcast, definitely the Lunacy Audio Beat Beam plugin.
Chris Barker:
How's that sound?
Will Betts:
How's that work?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I think if I was, like, gonna be, like, nervous, I would change out the Shadow Hills for the Devil Lock, because I know it works, but I should, you know, I should challenge myself.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I'm sure I could also buy the Devil Lock much more easily than.
Will Betts:
I'm afraid all of your accounts will be frozen.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
You are logged in.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Okay. So. So my luxury item.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
If that is okay.
Chris Barker:
Let's go easy.
Will Betts:
Let's do it. Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Like, I just.
Chris Barker:
Okay, tell us about your luxury item.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Just a bit more energy about my. My studio space. Right.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So in this whole. It's not a studio thing. I want it to feel like an incredibly creative space. Ideally. Actually, I would love a Beyblade arena in the center of my studio. I just. There's something about it. I do Beyblade.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I. I don't have support acts at my gigs. I run a Beyblade tournament. I'm not even joking. Like, when it's my own show, it is amazing. There is nothing that gets people involved in something's happening. And comfortable with strangers then screaming at spinning tops, hitting each other in a bowl. Like, it's.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It's impeccable. So I just feel. Imagine this. So you come into the studio. There's a Beyblade arena in the middle, there's a floating head. That's a microphone. I also had this idea for these. I want to.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Speakers that are, like, not actually attached to the floor underneath. I want them hanging, and I want them on clouds. I wanted to just not. I just don't. Nothing. Like, the desk is not a thing. I want it to be an immersive experience. My dream scenario.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But, like, I could. There's not enough items for this, is that there's actually interfaces dotted all around the studio and they're, like, hidden in the sofa.
Chris Barker:
You have to find them like an Easter egg.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I mean, that would be sick.
Chris Barker:
You record guitar, go.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I want them all to be on, like, a mainframe, like, connected together. I also just want mics that can be easily done to say, I don't know, we're vibing right now. I mean, obviously, I literally have a microphone in front of me. Fantastic. But, like, we can just go.
Chris Barker:
Actually sounds a bit similar to Jacob Collier's studio, the way he's got it set where he just goes over there and he's got.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Do you remember when he was on the podcast and he had sort of these areas set up like that? But it all Fed in.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
So that's amazing.
Chris Barker:
Where. Whether I'm being creative at the piano or over here on a guitar, I've got access to everything because, yeah, I.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Want something that just feels really fluid. Like, even currently, my studio setup is, like, not super. It's not wild, but it's not super traditional because I've got a square room and then it's soundproofing and it's, like, conditioned to put a desk directly in the middle on the back wall. But I actually have it, like, pushed all the way to the side. And then I have a sofa along one side so that I can. I know. Not, like, away from the artist. They're not behind me.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
My back is never to them. Like, I just want this sort of like, more like conversational thing. My desk. I just have a massive desk for no reason as well. I don't like the one I currently have. And I want something that's way more like subtle. It's like, I don't. I don't want this, like, here is a scary studio.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I want. We are making songs and we can make them sound really good. That's like, what I want.
Chris Barker:
So the luxury item. No life size. Cut out of Shrek, then.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, I mean. I mean, I don't know if that was. Was that being held for or is that just something I can say?
Chris Barker:
I was just going back to it.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But, like, you only allowed one more room. Yeah. Okay.
Will Betts:
I think that'd be part of the decor.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Is that any different than like a sofa or like a mural?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, but we've had. I think it's. We've, you know, we've had sofas as a luxury item specifically.
Will Betts:
That's true. That's true.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Beyblade are inner is cooler.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
I think a beyblade arena is like, epic. Right. Because the other thing as well, that I really wanted in my space isn't necessarily a luxury item. Item is I wanted it to also feel like a gig space. So I had this other idea. There was basically that there's, like a slight stage on the, like, bit where you would perform. And then I thought it'd be so funny if I, like, blow up dull audience.
Will Betts:
Right.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Because sometimes you get in your head, right, like, especially if you're writing music that is meant to be live, but all you're thinking about is the studio.
Chris Barker:
Have you seen what they've installed at the Roll London College of Music? So for like, opera singers and performers, they've got, like a V. They've got real. It's a real Stage. And then it's like a VR wrap round screen of audience. But. But it's like, it uses AI so they react to your performance and things. But it's to give, like, students the idea of stepping out onto that huge stage in that huge space.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So something like that is pretty cool.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
A giant curved but.
Chris Barker:
And it means they can do things like what it's like stepping out out. And it's not a sellout. And what it's like stepping out, you know, to an audience that doesn't respond or so they can. And it's just to get artists and a lot, especially performers and opera singers and stuff over that line because it's a. You can rehearse all you want until you step out there and the lights are at your face and you can see. Yeah. Look it up. It's.
Chris Barker:
It's really interesting what they've done, like, as a. Yeah. Concept to calm people. Stage fright and. Yeah. Nerves.
Will Betts:
Good use fit.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
For VR.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Yes.
Will Betts:
Beyblade arena or wraparound VR audience.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It's a challenge I never thought I would have to face in my life to make that decision. Beyblades are my personality.
Will Betts:
There we go. It's Beyblades. It's got to be Beyblades.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I do still think, like, having a thing. I mean, so, as I said, I think my official luxury item is the same as Ellie's. And both of us came up to this conclusion completely by ourselves. We want a microphone stand stand. Again, if we both want this, I don't know why this doesn't exist, because it's something we've naturally both come to. I want a microphone stand that's on, like, a giant rig in the ceiling that you can just put anywhere in the room.
Will Betts:
Like in a boxing ring.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yes. Literally imagine.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
It just drops down and here we go. You know, I don't know how it would be, like, stiff enough to, like, stay in one position, but, like, I don't want a mic stand in front of me and a microphone on it. I want it to be above and so I can have all this space around my legs, especially playing guitar. It's, like, so annoying when you do have those.
Chris Barker:
I've been to studios where they've got the huge arms. Even in Abbey Roads where they've got the massive mic arms and then they.
Will Betts:
Like the latch lake ones.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah. And the sandbags on all the sides and stuff. Yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I think, like, how cool would it be to have, like, a system in the ceiling?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
That would also Be my dream studio. With Fritz floating around and a control surface.
Chris Barker:
A control surface. So they just sort of pop down. And then the eye vision, it's kind of like one of those whack a mole things. And the mic just comes out like. Oh, it's a there.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, yeah, you gotta run.
Chris Barker:
And then you suck it back up into the ceiling and drop it.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, you gotta do a bayblade tunnel.
Will Betts:
Like the claw machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
A thousand percent.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
That sounds pretty cool, actually.
Chris Barker:
Well, you could have one of those as well. You just pick the artist up and put them in front of the microphone.
Will Betts:
Yeah, yeah, why not?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah, do it that way around.
Chris Barker:
Right?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Well, like a robotic chair.
Will Betts:
These are all good options.
Chris Barker:
We've got our vans.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
But I'm excited for people to come to this studio. I'm excited to go to this studio.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, well, that's.
Will Betts:
That's what we want. Yeah. Do you feel like this is a place you could work, though?
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Yeah. Well, I think another feature as well, but it's not. Don't worry, you don't have to push a little soundboard decor wise as well. I do just want trinkets everywhere. Because when you're songwriting, it's really good to look up and then be like, oh, that can inspire lyrical. That can do that. Rather than just basic stuff or just.
Chris Barker:
A gray room just so we'll compress it. And for me too. We did upsell lots of dreams.
Will Betts:
We did.
Chris Barker:
I think we did upsell your dream.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Fantastic.
Will Betts:
Yeah, we did. We can be proud of ourselves there, I think.
Chris Barker:
Anyway, all that's left to say is thank you so much for taking the time and building your fantasy forever studio with us.
Will Betts:
Thank you so much, Charlie.
Charlie Deakin Davies:
Charlie, thank you so much for having me.
Chris Barker:
Well, all that's left to say is thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for tuning in and we will catch you next time for more adventures into studio foreverdom. Goodbye.
Will Betts:
Bye.