Sarz is an award-winning artist and producer who’s worked with WizKid, Skrillex, Gunna, Skepta and many more across Afrobeats and beyond. This time, find out why he thinks producer tags on tracks are more important than ever, which Amapiano sound he thinks is genius, and how a software mishap early in his career made him the producer he is today.
Sarz is an award-winning artist and producer who’s worked with WizKid, Skrillex, Gunna, Skepta and many more across Afrobeats and beyond. This time, find out why he thinks producer tags on tracks are more important than ever, which Amapiano sound he thinks is genius, and how a software mishap early in his career made him the producer he is today.
STUFF WE TALK ABOUT (SPOILERS AHEAD!)
https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio/
https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch-m3-max
https://www.cableguys.com/shaperbox/
https://www.spectrasonics.net/products/omnisphere/
https://www.instagram.com/obongjayar/?hl=en
Obongjayar x Sarz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTlsomnlhTs&ab_channel=Only1Sarz
https://aiaiai.audio/unit-4-wireless-plus
https://www.fabfilter.com/products/pro-q-3-equalizer-plug-in
https://www.waves.com/plugins/q10-equalizer
Chris Barker:
I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts:
And I'm Will Betts. And this is the music tech, my Forever studio podcast brought to you in partnership with audient. And we are coming to you this time from Tyx Studios in London.
Chris Barker:
In this podcast we speak with musicians, DJ's, producers and engineers about their fantasy forever studio.
Will Betts:
This fantasy studio that our guests dream up is one they're going to have to live with for eternity. But even in Forever land, we do have some rules, don't we, Chris?
Chris Barker:
That's right. The rules. Our guests can select a computer, a Daw and an audio interface. Things are free, but then they get just six other bits of studio kit plus one luxury item.
Will Betts:
We have one more very, very important rule though, don't we?
Sarz:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
No bundles. That's right, no bundles. Choosing a package of software or hardware that's sold together as a bundle is not allowed.
Will Betts:
That's right. Our guest this time is an award winning artist, producer and engineer who's worked with the likes of Wizkid, Skepta, Skrillex, Gunner and many more.
Chris Barker:
That's right. And if you've ever heard the tag sars on the beat, that's him.
Will Betts:
This is my forever studio with sars.
Chris Barker:
Welcome, welcome, sars.
Sarz:
Thank you so much for having me.
Chris Barker:
Thank you so much for joining us. I think the first thing we have to talk about before we start building the forever studio, let's talk about how you got started in this business and how you got started making music. Was it from instruments? Was it via computing? Was it via software and programming beats? How was that journey for you early on?
Sarz:
Um, to be honest, it was by mistake. Okay, literally by chance. But I've always been a lover of music and unlike most people, I only cared for the beats. So I was a big fan of timberland, pharrell, doctor Dre, you know, growing up, and any song produced by them, I just wanted to, like, you know, analyze it and everything. And I only listened to music if it was like, produced by my favorite producers. So I guess, you know, that was like the love of music, like, just brewing in me. And so when did the creating start?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, what was the accident?
Sarz:
So the accident is my friend who was a producer was like, oh, you spent so much time, like, you know, just with music, why don't you just try making beats yourself? And he sent me an Fl studio three demo and I make a beat, and obviously with a demo, you can't save. And I didn't know, I thought that was how it works, so I would make a beat for a client for an artist or wherever, and he'll be like, you know what, I like this part, but maybe if you change this part, you know, maybe take the chords out or, you know, make the drums. And I'm like, okay, cool, and I'll remake the beat again. So I did that for at least six months, you know, what a way.
Chris Barker:
To get good quick, though, because.
Sarz:
Exactly, exactly. But I didn't know I was like, you know, just training myself to get better. But I thought that was how, you know, you were supposed to like make music.
Chris Barker:
They asked for it to be changed. Be like, no, that's it. Yeah, you get one shot. I like it. That's your problem.
Sarz:
I said, I'll make the same beat up like ten times. They'll never be like, they're like super identical, obviously never the same. But that kind of trained me to becoming who I am today.
Chris Barker:
And you naturally kind of, I guess improve that every time you have to remake it. You actually. Now that gives you.
Sarz:
Yes. Then when I found out that that was just a demo version, that you could get a full version that was.
Chris Barker:
Discovered.
Sarz:
I was like, what? Nah, nah. But I mean.
Chris Barker:
And did you stick with Fl then?
Sarz:
Yeah, I've been using Fl. I've tried Ableton, but just going through that learning curve. Yeah, it's just so difficult. I know everything when fl at the back of my hand. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So you started as a programmer essentially.
Sarz:
Like, and as a. Yeah, I have no musical background. You know, the time I spent in music has, you know, improved my tone. You know, I used to be tone deaf, you know, now I know keys. I can find my way around the piano, I can play some keys, you know, things like that. Yeah, just over, you know, time.
Chris Barker:
I guess that leads us to the first thing, which is probably going to be a difficult decision for you as you're relatively well traveled, is where would you put your dream studio in the.
Sarz:
World if you could?
Chris Barker:
What would it look like, what kind of building, what kind of vibe?
Sarz:
My dream studio would definitely be on an island. Like probably on a cliff where you can, where you can like see, like where the scenery is just beautiful, like water.
Chris Barker:
You're not thinking Scotland?
Sarz:
No, no, no. Somewhere hot. Yeah, that would be the dream location. However, I would like that to be, you know, in the city center as well. So if you could just bring my island to the city center so I don't have to, like, I don't have to be isolated from everyone.
Chris Barker:
So you kind of just want to be floating in the middle of a city like a supervillain or a mayor in Sim City, basically.
Sarz:
Like, have you. You've seen the Avengers headquarters? Oh, no. No. Or Tony Stark's home?
Will Betts:
Oh, the Malibu clifftop.
Sarz:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
So we thinking. Are we thinking.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Sarz:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
So. But we're thinking, you know, that side of the Atlantic, then in terms of caribbean or pacific side, west coast?
Sarz:
East coast, I don't mind, you know, somewhere around. Yeah, somewhere around there. Yeah. The Caribbeans. Yeah.
Will Betts:
You don't want to be closer to LA for music business.
Sarz:
LA is cool, but it's. It's too far from everything. And they're also, like 8 hours, like 9 hours behind. You know, it's culturally or. Yeah, it kind of. Because I have, like, a lot of people on this side of the world, like, you know, in Nigeria, in other countries in Africa, you know, here in the UK. Like, it just feels like you're away, you know? And I don't like that real place.
Will Betts:
What if it's a real, real place?
Sarz:
That can be somewhere in Tanzania. Okay. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
They do Tony Stark style house in Tanzania.
Sarz:
Yeah. It can be Cape Town as well.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Sarz:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Whereabouts in Cape Town? On the table Mountain edge.
Sarz:
Yeah, maybe. Yeah, something like that.
Chris Barker:
Just looking over into the bay.
Sarz:
Yeah. Or somewhere in Nigeria. I mean, they have, like, beautiful waterfalls in Nigeria as well. Well, yeah. You get the vibe okay. I'm not sure.
Chris Barker:
And what about.
Sarz:
We can refine it later.
Chris Barker:
We'll drill down into that later. So what about the vibe inside? And this speaks to, like, how do you like to work? I mean, do you like kind of an open? Some people like no light caves, no clocks. Some people like bright open.
Sarz:
I love natural light. I also don't want my studio to look like a studio.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Sarz:
Yeah. I want my studio to be as comfortable as possible. I want you to get in. I don't feel like you're in the studio. I want you to feel comfortable, like you're in a living space.
Chris Barker:
Has that been a big part of when you work with other people?
Sarz:
How you.
Chris Barker:
How, like, from your studio choices, if you're working with a client, it doesn't matter.
Sarz:
Like, I would work anywhere in any studio, you know? But I think I work my best when I'm by myself at home. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Would you have your studio somewhere where you live as well, or would you have it as a separate place you go? Because that can be a big decision. Some people don't like their studio in their home.
Sarz:
Oh, I could probably just, you know, it could be in the same place in my home, and I just go to the basement and have my studio there. Yeah, I like to be comfortable, to be honest. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Sarz:
Zero commute.
Will Betts:
Yeah, that's right.
Chris Barker:
Okay, fine. Okay, well then let's get onto your, the three free items that we call them that every guest gets to select these. So your daw, what audio interface you're going to have and the computer. Like what type of computer?
Sarz:
So daw, just one. Right.
Chris Barker:
Well, for now, this is free one.
Sarz:
And definitely Fl studio, you know, they've been rocking with me from the jump.
Chris Barker:
And the growth of that product is crazy right now.
Sarz:
The things they're coming up with is insane. It's insane. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And do you like, because there used to be moments where people didn't really like admitting in the professional world to using it.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Even though everybody was. Yeah, yeah, but that's cool now, right? Nobody, nobody cares to be honest.
Sarz:
I don't care. Yeah, yeah, that's your business. Exactly.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but it used to be, I felt bad for image line and I.
Sarz:
Felt like, yeah, I mean, it used to be a bit like earlier in my career there was this artist from Nigeria, big, one of the biggest artists at that time. He wanted me to make some, you know, beats for him. And I was so excited, like, oh, like, you know, this will be big for me and everything. And I, I played some beats. He loved them, I sent them to him and he asked me what I make music with and I said, fruity loops. You know, it's called fruity loops there. And he was like, oh, he only works with people that use pro tools. What? Yeah, yeah, it happened.
Chris Barker:
It actually happened.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So what then?
Sarz:
What do you, what? I was like, shit, I lost it. Like, wow. Yeah, I took the l. But you.
Chris Barker:
Know, you should have said, well, everybody else is. Told you they've used pro tools. They're lying.
Sarz:
No, but this must have been everybody.
Chris Barker:
That said, oh, yeah, did that pro, no, they didn't. Well, yeah, you're making a beat in protos. Come on.
Will Betts:
Did you ever have that again or is that just the one time that's happened?
Sarz:
It was just one time. Right, just one time.
Chris Barker:
But that was early on, like I said, there was a stigma, wasn't there?
Sarz:
This was like 2009 or 2008.
Will Betts:
Yeah, right, okay.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Has that artist ever come back to you now? Because that would be cool.
Sarz:
He's not relevant anymore. He's not relevant anymore. Like, yeah. Oh, dear. Oh, that's good. That's a good story.
Chris Barker:
That is a good story because that qualifies that it wasn't just hearsay. What we were saying about it. Having a bad rep for no reason. People do say things like, okay, okay, so we're looking at Fr studio. I mean, we thought that was gonna be the answer.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
But what about audio interface? Dream situation. Do you have a preference on, like, what you plug into some of the.
Sarz:
Lasts five years, I've literally been on the road just traveling from city. City. So one audio interface that's been with me, you know, throughout that time has been Apollo twin. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Nice.
Chris Barker:
Popular choice. Would you stay with Apollo for the. I mean, the twin, or would you go for the. One of the big racks?
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Staying with you in a versal audio.
Sarz:
Probably one of the big racks. Because, I mean, if I'm having a big. If I have a big studio.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, we're here to upsell dreams.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Okay. And with the preamps, I guess mic preamps or not so important. Depends what you get. I guess we can pause that and see when we get to your other items, whether you need the preamps on the interface.
Sarz:
Okay, cool.
Chris Barker:
And how many inputs you need. But we'll stay with the UA and then the computer.
Sarz:
Definitely a Mac. Definitely a Mac.
Chris Barker:
And were you going laptop or desktop?
Sarz:
Laptop. Because I love to immobile.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Any you don't want to go somewhere old school thing you want or what.
Chris Barker:
You should have chosen.
Sarz:
Say that again.
Chris Barker:
Fl studio demo. That doesn't save old pc. Go retro.
Sarz:
That's not gonna work into this. You know, with today's music, everything is so large. Like, you know, every audio files, like, you know, you need. I need a Mac that's spec'd out.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
We can go for the full spec. Mac M three.
Will Betts:
Max.
Chris Barker:
Max.
Will Betts:
Max.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. So those are the three items. We raced through those because everybody gets those.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Now you get just six other bits of kit, software or hardware. So that's all you've got so far. And now you get six other items. So let's start with item number one. Tell us about your choice and why.
Sarz:
Just because I use this in almost every channel, you know, it's definitely in my strip shaper box.
Chris Barker:
Shaper cable guys.
Sarz:
Right.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
I don't think many people use it that often on our podcast, do they?
Will Betts:
People don't normally choose it, but I think a lot of people use it.
Chris Barker:
Oh, yeah. It's on everything.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Great plugin there. So tell us about shapebox. Why is it always in the chain?
Sarz:
So, for me, I find the easiest ways to do things. You know, I'm not the techies guy. Yeah. But I get to, I get things done. So shaper box is just an easy. It's the easiest way for me to sidechain. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Oh, yeah. Because you can just draw in the curves.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Interface is really smart, isn't it?
Sarz:
Yeah, it's very smart. You know, you can do a lot of other things.
Chris Barker:
Get that sidechain style effect where volume envelopes, basically.
Will Betts:
And so what specifically can you talk us through, like, a specific use case for that? When are you side chaining? What are you sidechaining?
Sarz:
Anything. Sometimes I can put them on keys and, you know, turn the mix level to, like, 40 or 50. So it just kind of makes it, like, sits. It sits better in the mix. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Interesting.
Chris Barker:
You can do loads of mad stuff with it as well.
Will Betts:
So my only issue with this is it feels like a bundle, but I think.
Chris Barker:
Is this a bundle?
Will Betts:
I think it's. It's borderline. Is this like a multi. Multi effect?
Chris Barker:
Multi effects isn't a bundle?
Will Betts:
Yeah, because it's. It's all in one thing.
Sarz:
Wow.
Will Betts:
It's okay. We are walking a fine line here.
Chris Barker:
Will just likes pressing the air horn.
Will Betts:
I really like hitting the air horn. Mmm. I'll allow it.
Chris Barker:
Can you, can you plug other stuff into shaper box? I think that's what you can do.
Sarz:
Can you, what do you mean plug other stuff?
Chris Barker:
Like, is it, is it its own?
Will Betts:
No, it's just a plugin.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Single plugin. It's fine.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Sarz:
Wow. Wow. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Can't break the rules. It's six items for a reason. Otherwise it's chaos.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay, so lock in shaper box and let's move on to item number two then.
Sarz:
Hmm. Item number two.
Chris Barker:
So all you've got is fl and shaper box. Really? Right now, Fl has a lot of stock.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
I was gonna say, yeah, you get a lot out straight out of the box. Right.
Sarz:
Omnisphere.
Chris Barker:
Ah, that is a popular choice. Omnisphere. Talk to us about omnisphere. When did you first get it?
Sarz:
Maybe like 2011.
Chris Barker:
I can say it's pretty.
Sarz:
Oh, wow.
Chris Barker:
It's actually pretty old, isn't it, as a plug in?
Sarz:
Yeah. It has an idea of everything you need. You know, it might not be it exactly, but it's really close. Yeah. Anything you can think of.
Chris Barker:
So what do you generally find yourself using it for? What do you go to omnisphere for?
Sarz:
Anything, to be honest. Like, when I find an interesting sound, I save the presets.
Chris Barker:
Do you have the idea? And then try and get the sound out of your head or do you just browse? And then the sound inspires the idea.
Sarz:
I have different sessions for both. I have sessions where I'm looking for stuff, and I have sessions where I know I just go to my go to sounds.
Chris Barker:
So I guess, does that depend on whether you're working for yourself or working with certain people?
Sarz:
It depends if I'm trying to, like, change my sound palettes, because I might stick to a sound palette for, you know, a week or two. You know, just use that and there are certain sounds that will never change because that's kind of like, you know, your identity.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
Sarz:
Like, and everyone hears things differently, so there's certain things that even if it's different, you'd always make those choices. Like, for example, I really like kicks with no high end. That's just round, real boomy, kind of low. And when I'm looking for kick drums, chances are when I hear something that's boomy or round, I'm like, ah, that's nice. So I could have, like, 20 kick drums and they all sound similar because that's what I always like to hear. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And how do you balance that with the base, though, when you're talking about that? So it's a bit of a nerdy one, but, like, because when you're choosing kicks that are that weighty and deep.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And then if you want to, I mean, do you use them predominantly as the base or do you have bass? Because they can be a conflict, can't they, when you get that?
Sarz:
I mean, if. If there's a conflict that something like shipper box can, like, easily, you know, solve that. Yeah. You know, just side chain the bass so, you know, you can hear the kick more. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And you were saying about those sort of rolling kind of.
Will Betts:
Oh, yeah. In Mona Lisa, for instance, the bass in that with sort of ratcheting bass line. Tell us about that sound.
Sarz:
That's a log drum, and it came from South Africans. I'm a piano. It's literally a stock sound on Fl studio.
Chris Barker:
Oh, really? Okay.
Will Betts:
Right.
Sarz:
On DX ten. Yeah. And you could literally just tweak it however you want, and it just has to sound different. And you can automate some, you know, some knobs, you know, to just really bring some cool, really cool sounds.
Chris Barker:
So his DX ten, I'm guessing, is that an FM style synth, like, I think so, yeah.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
I'm guessing because of the DX sync.
Sarz:
Yeah, that makes sense.
Chris Barker:
I'm not. I haven't done Fl studio since version one.
Sarz:
Been a while. Been a while. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
I was old man. Yeah.
Will Betts:
So I'm a piano, though. I mean, that's.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
You know, with the, you know, the international recognition of that genre, how are you finding that's influencing what you're doing in your music?
Sarz:
So here's how I say, I think the log drum, whoever stumbled on that on Fl studio is genius, and I think it does what 808 does to trap music and how 808 has affected pop. You know? So other genres don't necessarily make trap, but they'll use 808s. Yeah. So it's kind of like that now where other genres don't necessarily use all the amapiano elements, but they take the log drums, you know, as the bass.
Will Betts:
I see.
Chris Barker:
To give it that kind of season of that genre.
Sarz:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
And is there any, like, rivalry, then, between, like, the afrobeats and ama piano camps? You know, is that. Is there any of that? Or is everyone just kind of like, this is cool. This is a new thing?
Sarz:
I don't know if there's a rivalry, but. And if there is, I'm blind to those. Cause, you know, I. I openly say, you know, I'm inspired by, you know, that music and that sound, and I take elements I want to take from it, and, you know, I try to elevate whatever I'm doing. Yeah. So I don't think. I don't think it's a rivalry. Like, you know, afrobeats is still where they still make, you know, their music.
Sarz:
You know, I'm. A piano makes their music, and there's, like, a. An intersection between both genres. That's really cool, too. And I think both genres are benefiting from each other.
Will Betts:
Yeah, absolutely.
Chris Barker:
And when you said about keeping your own style, like, are you aware of that? Because obviously, people want to work with you for your sound, but then, in a way, you kind of want to push your own sound on, and occasionally, did people want you to produce a sound that you're sort of. You're ahead of now, you don't want to go back to that, and you have to say no. Or is that not happened yet? Because I can imagine that when you were saying about Timbaland, I was just thinking, I hear that sound and I hear the Neptune sound, but there's a point where they have to sort of go, that was me then.
Sarz:
Not really. I also don't just work with anybody just because, you know, I work with them either, because I think they're very talented. I find them interesting or, you know, vice versa. Or sometimes, you know, like, there's a wild card where you're just like, oh, let's see. You know, let's see how this goes. Let's see.
Chris Barker:
And that must be exciting, though, the wild card thing, right?
Sarz:
Yeah, it's, you know, very exciting because, you know, you just get to see things that you've never, like, you never thought you'd experience, you know, I guess.
Chris Barker:
That'S when you can. Where you can really push it.
Sarz:
With my own music, I can really push it because, you know, literally, I'm a pilot. Yeah. Which I love to make music for myself because that way I can get to do everything I want to do. You know, I can make the intro two minutes long. No one's gonna say, oh, my God, this intro is too long. You know, I could do whatever I wanted. I could try different sounds. And a lot of times when I make music for myself, people are like, wow, this is so cool.
Sarz:
Like, you know, I want to make music like that. But then if I'm like, okay, let's just do something like that. Like, I don't want to.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarz:
The end result is always cool to everyone, but the process is like, ah, nah, they're not patient enough.
Will Betts:
Have you ever had any of those wild card moments with artists? Maybe you've come out of the blue and you've had, and it's really worked out. Any massive success stories from there?
Sarz:
There's a project I worked. I did a joint ep with Obong Jaya, and when I heard his music, I didn't think we could make something together because he's very, like, analog, you know, similar to, like, Bonnie ve. And I was like, you know, how can this work? But, you know, we linked up, and it was actually magical, you know?
Chris Barker:
So how did that work in terms of recording process, then? If he. If the works quite analog, and, like, were you, like, sampling it or.
Sarz:
No, I was just. So, so when I. When I meet an artist and I hear their music, you know, or just. You just have a conversation in that. In that process, I start to envision my own idea of that artist, and that's how I paint the picture, you know, so it's not really about what they've done. It's just like, how I would paint you if I was you.
Chris Barker:
So it's kind of almost like remixing them but not kind of approaching it like that.
Sarz:
So. So they get to see themselves, you know, from another point of view. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Like a twist on them.
Sarz:
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Chris Barker:
It's a nice way of putting it. The music tech. My Forever studio podcast is supported by audience makers of the iD range of audio interfaces.
Will Betts:
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Chris Barker:
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Will Betts:
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Chris Barker:
Thats right. And the audient id 24 is available now, priced at 299 pounds, €349 and $399.
Will Betts:
Visit audient.com for more information and to explore the full id interface range.
Chris Barker:
Moving on to item number three. Okay, I think you're gonna need some speakers maybe.
Will Betts:
Or headphones.
Chris Barker:
Or headphones. I mean, or both. I mean, you're gonna use up items, speakers.
Sarz:
I just got the unit four.
Will Betts:
Oh, the III ones.
Sarz:
Yes.
Will Betts:
The wireless ones.
Sarz:
Yes. They're amazing, by the way. I know I didn't say, but I would want my studio to be entirely wireless. I don't want to plug anything.
Will Betts:
It's a dream, 100% about that. It's been a dream of mine as well. I can't handle cables.
Chris Barker:
Look at will. Like, will, literally, this is my particular.
Will Betts:
Thing I'm very, very passionate about.
Sarz:
Yes.
Will Betts:
I've actually got the wireless TMA two s. The wireless studio.
Sarz:
Plus, it just makes life easy. And, you know, also if I can create, like, not me, or if, you know, there's a technology that has like, maybe an electromagnetic field of acoustic. So we can be in an open.
Chris Barker:
Space, but have the dead room environment.
Sarz:
Exactly. In an open space, everyone's making music. But there might be a studio set up in. Once you just switch it on, it's like he's in his own world.
Chris Barker:
We're back to the Avengers again, aren't we?
Sarz:
Exactly. Exactly like, that would be so cool.
Chris Barker:
Got some kind of.
Will Betts:
That would be cool.
Chris Barker:
An acoustic force field. That's what we can call.
Sarz:
Yes. Yes.
Chris Barker:
It's another item. It's another item you can manufacture on our podcast. We have the acoustic helmet. Really? No. Well, we invented it together.
Will Betts:
Oh, yeah, of course we did.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
You know, like they have those booths that you go in the ISO booth.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
But you wear the whole thing as a helmet. Put the mobile lap so you can, you can sing and it's all acoustic. Yeah. We called it the my forever studio ISO helmet.
Will Betts:
That's right.
Chris Barker:
And now we have the my forever studio with SARS acoustic forcefield.
Sarz:
And that would be so sick. You know, we've got two products there.
Chris Barker:
If anybody wants to invest in us, we are ready for investment.
Sarz:
Turn on the button and just go.
Will Betts:
Like the cone of silence.
Sarz:
Yeah, cone of silence, basically. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
That's what we'll call it, the cone of silence. I'm pretty sure that's true. It's better with our acoustic helmet.
Sarz:
Yeah. So you can partition the room anyhow you want to.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Sarz:
Anywhere can be dead.
Chris Barker:
Jokes aside, you can get like spotlight sound. So you can, you can have things. They have them in galleries and museums where it's like a spotlight.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
But when you stand into the light, you can hear, and when you stand out, you can't. It's quite cool. So if you're in a museum, you step in front of a painting, you can hear about the painting, and then when you step out of the light, you can't hear the sound.
Will Betts:
Is that not just really tightly focused speakers? Because I've seen like, walls of speakers before, and there's the way that the cancellation of the different speakers works. It means that certain spots, you can get the.
Chris Barker:
Throw the full sound down the light waves or something. I saw it once.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Will always looks at me like I'm just, I've had a dream and I've woken up in the middle of the podcast. Will's like, I think you've made this the cone of silence. Anyway. Okay, so we're gonna stick with the wireless iis then. You love those.
Sarz:
Yeah. I think they're the best sounding monitors of that size. I think that.
Chris Barker:
And again, it's mobile traveling.
Sarz:
Yes. Anything that you know is wire free, they've written.
Chris Barker:
Any other wireless ones?
Sarz:
I don't think.
Chris Barker:
Are they studio monitors?
Sarz:
And it has, and it has this transmitter that makes. So there's no latency.
Will Betts:
Yeah, it's like about twelve milliseconds, which works great.
Sarz:
Yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
Very workable. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And battery powered.
Will Betts:
Battery powered.
Sarz:
Battery powered.
Chris Barker:
So completely.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Party on a plane.
Sarz:
You could, you could.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, we could.
Sarz:
Okay.
Will Betts:
You're already scheming. I like it, I like it. So the unit fours. Okay. You don't want to go any bigger than that. Happy with those where they are? Do you have any speaker in the world.
Sarz:
I don't know much about speakers, to be honest. I mean, I just go to the studio and I know speakers that sound great. I never asked, like, oh, what speakers are these?
Will Betts:
You know, I mean, it's probably the least exciting part of the whole studio.
Chris Barker:
But you need his stuff.
Will Betts:
Yeah, but if you know the unit fours. Perfect.
Chris Barker:
Is that the biggest one they do? There isn't a unit ten.
Sarz:
No, no, that's unit four. That's the biggest one they do. But I'm guessing. I'm guessing, you know, my dream studio obviously has the best sounding speakers, but I'm just, you know, just for the sake of putting this list together.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, for the sake of it. Come on. This is our lives, this podcast, and it's gonna be yours, too. So easily dismissed, us. Entire concept of our podcast there. Cheers, man. No, seriously.
Sarz:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
No, I like the aye is. They're cool. So basically, what we're saying is, in fantasy forever land, if they could have them, those, but bigger, that would be great, right? A little bit. Because.
Sarz:
Probably not. Probably not. It's just because. It's just because, you know, I'm using them right now, and I'm really enjoying them.
Chris Barker:
The wireless thing is killer. I tell. It's very cool.
Sarz:
But like I said, I want the whole studio to be Hawaii. You know, just get in, you know, and just connect.
Chris Barker:
No.
Sarz:
Crazy.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Sarz:
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay, let's. Let's get on to item number four.
Sarz:
Item number four. Um.
Chris Barker:
You'Re gonna need a microphone of some sort, surely.
Will Betts:
Are you?
Chris Barker:
Well, I guess.
Will Betts:
And, you know, you don't have any.
Sarz:
Keys yet, so I don't like how you guys are just putting ideas in my head. No, these are not my ideas.
Chris Barker:
What are your ideas? That's fair.
Sarz:
Yeah, these are not my ideas.
Chris Barker:
We're just trying.
Sarz:
If I want to drink. Yeah. If I want to end with, like, you know, three. Three items, that's fine. You know, it's my. It's my studio.
Chris Barker:
That is. Oh, that would be. That's bold. Bold.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
You don't want even three more things?
Chris Barker:
No, I'm just saying, we're not trying to pot ideas. We're just trying to upsell dreams.
Will Betts:
Yeah, we want to.
Sarz:
I'll sell your kind. This is fantasy. But, you know, a library with real musicians on demand.
Chris Barker:
Okay, okay.
Sarz:
What?
Chris Barker:
Sounds like a bundle.
Will Betts:
It does sound like a bundle, huh?
Chris Barker:
Sounds like a bundle, yeah.
Sarz:
It's not a bundle.
Chris Barker:
A bundle of musicians.
Sarz:
No, I said a library.
Will Betts:
Library.
Sarz:
Omnisphere is a library.
Chris Barker:
What kind of library?
Sarz:
Imagine. Imagine a guitar sound, but instead of a guitar sound, it's a guitarist with that guitar, and you're like, play me this. It's like, cool. And he plays it. It's a library.
Chris Barker:
Okay?
Sarz:
So you need to take that back.
Will Betts:
Well, okay, I'll. I'll reverse that in the edit, and that'll come out.
Sarz:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Yes, fine.
Sarz:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
But I think we need to nail down what this, actually, it's a sound library.
Sarz:
It's like contact.
Chris Barker:
Okay?
Will Betts:
It's like the contact of all these amazing musicians. Just be like, I need you. Let's go.
Sarz:
No, they're in there, and you hear the sound instruments. You know, if it's like a mandolin.
Will Betts:
You hear like, oh, this is cool.
Sarz:
You tell him what to play instead of you playing it.
Chris Barker:
So it's like an AI kind of thing, maybe. Yeah, like an AI version. An AI sample without any of the moral issues. What are the moral issues? They're not real people in that box.
Will Betts:
No, they're real people in that box. These are real people, right?
Sarz:
Huh?
Will Betts:
Are there real people in the line?
Sarz:
Are you in trouble?
Chris Barker:
He's starting this. He's like, what about the. He's like, what about the moral issues? What moral issues?
Will Betts:
Okay, so is it AI? Are we saying it's AI?
Sarz:
We're saying if you're working on a song and you have this idea, and you play with vst guitar, and you're like, you know, this is gonna sound way better with, like, actual guitarist. You know, you call a guitarist, you know, you play him what you played, and it's like, oh, play something similar, you know, whatever, or go crazy, and they play it. So now with this plugin, okay.
Chris Barker:
It's like a translator for your idea into an acoustic instrument, basically.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
I think that's an actual thing now, it's not a bit like that thing we were talking about earlier where you can just go, eighties rock song, but you could do.
Will Betts:
It's called synth GPT, isn't it?
Chris Barker:
Synth. Synth GPT. That's the thing. So, like. Like that, but, yeah, with soul. With acoustic instruments.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Sarz:
No, no, not just with acoustic. With soul. Like, they actually play properly.
Chris Barker:
Put soul in a machine. It is getting a bit questionable.
Sarz:
It's getting a bit. Okay, I'm gonna. You know what? I don't want anymore.
Chris Barker:
They just worry about a robot uprising. As soon as you start putting soul main things in these devices, you'll get to your studio to set up one day, and it'll move you.
Sarz:
It's just. It's just gonna be. It's just gonna be, like, quick. Like, it's how, like, deliveries these days have gotten quicker. Sometimes now you can get, you know, stuff delivered, maybe groceries in, like, ten minutes.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Sarz:
You know, it didn't used to be like that. It could take, like, 40 minutes an hour before. Right?
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Sarz:
So it's getting faster.
Chris Barker:
Like Uber sessions.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
On the app. Okay, now he's on board. Okay, now he's on board.
Will Betts:
Yeah. There's actually a. There's a device you can get, which means that you can record in real time over extremely long distances, like, super low latency. It's, I think, elk audio make it, and it means that you can call up a session player, and they can play directly into your session, but you.
Sarz:
Plug in this plugin. I have. I don't have to call people.
Will Betts:
I don't have to call anyone.
Sarz:
The best people are already there.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
Like, Uber.
Sarz:
Yeah. The 4.99 rated driver. So the 4.99,931 instrumentalist that they're session exec.
Will Betts:
Uber.
Chris Barker:
Uber for musicians. I like it.
Sarz:
Sure.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Item number five.
Sarz:
Yeah, Uber for musicians. That's. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
There was a moment, though, when we all thought that could actually be quite a cool thing.
Sarz:
Yeah. Like, yeah, your kids and their dads.
Will Betts:
Okay, that works. That works. I'm cool with that.
Chris Barker:
When he's about 20 minutes away from your studio, you cancel?
Will Betts:
No, change my mind.
Chris Barker:
Change my mind. Expensive surgeon. Oh, a lot. There's a lot of people requesting banjo. Banjo guitar right now.
Sarz:
Oh, wait.
Chris Barker:
No, wait.
Sarz:
I'll wait.
Chris Barker:
Okay, so that's four. Two more items left if you need them.
Sarz:
C 800 mike.
Chris Barker:
Oh, is that the Sony?
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay, tell us about. Tell us about this microphone.
Sarz:
There's just something you know about, like, the crisp, high end.
Chris Barker:
When was the first time you experienced it?
Sarz:
I think 2021. And I was like, oh, it's quite.
Chris Barker:
An unusual looking thing, isn't it?
Sarz:
Yeah. Okay, so this is why some people's vocals just sound like they sit in the middle, like. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Can you say who you recording with?
Will Betts:
With that?
Sarz:
Um, it wasn't me. I think it was whiskered. It was whiskey. Yeah, it was.
Chris Barker:
Is that whiz kid's mic of choice for all of his votes?
Sarz:
Go to mic for sure.
Chris Barker:
So now we know. That's why it sounds like that.
Sarz:
That's okay. Yeah, no, that's no secret. Is that.
Will Betts:
Was that whiz kid's own mic? Was that in a specific studio you were at?
Sarz:
It was in the studio that I don't know if it was his. But, I mean, he was recording.
Chris Barker:
He always requested.
Sarz:
I was like, okay, because not every.
Chris Barker:
Studio has that mic, so some people request a studio for that mic. Right.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
It's an expensive piece of equipment.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, it is.
Sarz:
I also like the U 87.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, classic. It's kind of boring to say that one, though, isn't it? It is a great mic. I think it's a boring answer.
Will Betts:
I mean, it's the workhorse mic.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Sarz:
You can do.
Chris Barker:
It's not a diss on the mic. It's just because it's. And it's. I like the C 800 has got, like, a vibe to it, and it's a bit more unusual looking.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah. It's a very cool mic that you tried. Any of the clones? Like, the. The warm audio. I can't remember what it's called.
Chris Barker:
A lot of people like that one, don't they? The one with, like, the weird grill, is that the warm audio one?
Sarz:
Is that the one that can emulate? Emulates, like, different.
Chris Barker:
Oh, that's the slate one, isn't it? Oh, that's slate.
Sarz:
Does one of.
Will Betts:
The slate one is the Townsend labs one that does that as well, which I don't know how. I think the towns of labs one is slightly different, but look, I don't.
Chris Barker:
Know much about my.
Sarz:
It also depends on my favorite SM.
Chris Barker:
57, by the way.
Sarz:
Classic SM. This one?
Chris Barker:
No, the 57. The handheld one.
Sarz:
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. It also depends on the artist.
Will Betts:
Yeah, of course.
Sarz:
I've worked with some artists that would only record with the SMB.
Will Betts:
Really?
Sarz:
Yeah, because there's just a certain way it makes their vocals sound, and, you know, like, the C 800, you know, it's probably too bright for them.
Chris Barker:
Have you ever had any artists that insist on holding a mic for performance reasons?
Sarz:
Most afrobeat artists, they want to hold. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Is that a challenge? You can't do that with a Sony, right?
Will Betts:
Yeah, you're, like, not into it.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Sarz:
Just like. Okay. You guys can see my eyes.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, because. No, because that's just gonna cause you problems later. Right? Yeah, you're right.
Sarz:
Yes.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Sarz:
100% yes. Well, not me. I mean, the mix engineer.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Sarz:
I'm just like, sorry, bro. It better sound amazing. It better sound great.
Chris Barker:
But, yeah, his hands were all over it. He was drumming on it.
Will Betts:
But do you find, then, that these artists who insist on. Or maybe people who don't insist on using a handheld mic, but once they get in the booth with a big condenser mic, like the c 800, that it affects their performance? It must do, right?
Sarz:
Yeah. And at the end of the day, just do what's best for you. Because the people who actually make music for do not care. Most of them listen to music from their phones, you know? So I guess I think sometimes we get too technical and whatever serves the song, we think we're making music, music for ourselves. Like, you actually really need to see how people consume music. Like, people that don't care, you know, they're not in the music business. It's very passive. They barely know who's singing, you know, not to talk about who's even behind the music or anything, you know, and they just hear it, how they want to hear it, and maybe the artist says something that connects with them, and that's it.
Sarz:
And that's their connection. It's not about how fat the bass sound or how everything is, you know, is in the right space.
Chris Barker:
I mean, you've got to serve the song, serve the project, and if you get the best performance. But it's noisy.
Sarz:
Yeah. I mean, obviously, sometimes the performance actually plays, you know, a major part, you know, to translate feeling. And that's why people connect to it more, because it just sounds the same way. It hits you a certain way.
Will Betts:
And just on that point then, of people not necessarily being as engaged with who's behind the scenes, how important was that tag for you? Sars on the beat to get your name out there and get people to know who you are?
Sarz:
Yes. So there's this song I made with Wizkid in 2012, and it was literally, I mean, I hear this song now and it sounds like an ad because it keeps saying. But a lot of people still make reference to that song as when they hear stars and, like, stars on the beat. Sars on the beat. So it did its job. And I think tags are very important for producers right now.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, because there's no credits as much anymore as well, a lot of times, streaming and stuff.
Sarz:
Yeah. Right now, because I make my own music, I can afford not to have a tag because my name's gonna be on the song. It's gonna live on my own spaces. Like, there's no way you're gonna get that song and not think, you know, of me, you know, as a performer as well. But as a producer, I think you definitely need a tag. All the producers, you know, and you love have tags or, you know, have some sort of, like, spotlight on them, you know, you know, from being an artist themselves or just, you know, just taking it bold step, you know, I.
Chris Barker:
Remember growing up, when you start hearing that stuff. And you'd be. And then you'd search like, who's that? You know? Yeah, dark child. Or, like, you know, but then red one or whatever.
Sarz:
To the average person.
Chris Barker:
Yep.
Sarz:
Sounds like gibberish. They don't know what that is. You know, you hear a tag and you just think like, oh, maybe they didn't clean up that part properly.
Chris Barker:
On Lady Gaga's poker face, there's. She says red one, but everybody thinks she says red wine.
Sarz:
Exactly. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Right, right.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Sarz:
So it's still people, like, in the industry, music industry, that would. They're able to tell, like, okay, this is this person's tag. You know, you have to really be a music lover. But it does help because those people, you know, would spread. Spread the word to the unbelievers, people that order, you know, people that don't care, you know? So I think it's very important.
Chris Barker:
But it goes through. It goes through.
Sarz:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
Upwards management, especially all the artists.
Sarz:
Friends of the artist.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Sarz:
Yeah. Especially if it's provocative, like, you know, and it's. It's cool, you know, for people to just say that. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So now we're on your final item before we get to a luxury item, which we'll discuss in a minute. But, like, so, final bit of kit for the studio. Software or hardware?
Sarz:
I don't use any hardware. I'm not going to act like, oh, my God, you know, I need this.
Chris Barker:
No, no.
Sarz:
Um, software.
Chris Barker:
Who needs hardware? You got Uber for musicians as well.
Sarz:
Yeah, exactly. Um, what else do I use all the time? Fab filter.
Chris Barker:
Okay, the. Which one? That's kind of bundling. Is it?
Will Betts:
Oh, procue.
Sarz:
Pro Q. Yeah. Pro Q three.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, that's kind of almost industry standard now, I should say. If you could give that.
Sarz:
I think so.
Chris Barker:
Industry standard level.
Will Betts:
I think that's. That qualifies. Yeah. Everybody has pro Q.
Chris Barker:
You don't think before that it was the waves one, wasn't it? Everybody used to love the similar sort.
Sarz:
Of parametric, I think, waves q or something like that.
Chris Barker:
What was.
Will Betts:
I never had that one.
Sarz:
It's in a bundle.
Chris Barker:
I had it.
Will Betts:
That's why we can't have it.
Sarz:
Yeah. That's why.
Will Betts:
I don't know.
Chris Barker:
So tell us about pro Q, like, because Fl's got a pretty meaty Eq in it as well. Quite good.
Sarz:
Right. The interface is just better. Seamless, easy to use. You can. I mean, fl studio parametric EQ two is similar, but fab filter is just easier to use. Yeah.
Will Betts:
And it doesn't.
Sarz:
The.
Will Betts:
The EQ in Fl doesn't have the dynamics section that pro Q three has as well.
Sarz:
Yeah, yeah. It doesn't have that. And its analyzer is not as good as the pro Q.
Will Betts:
Are you using the dynamic section in pro Q three for, like, I don't know, deessing or anything like that?
Sarz:
Yes. On vocals especially. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Especially if they're holding the mic.
Sarz:
You're killing me. But, yeah, on vocals especially because I don't think I really need that, you know, with instruments. Because. Except you have someone maybe playing a live instrument, maybe like, you know, strings, and it gets, like, really bright in some parts and, you know. Yeah. For things that have a more dynamic range. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Nice.
Chris Barker:
Okay, well, let's. Yeah, we're closing into the end now, but the first thing to do is.
Will Betts:
I'll give you a quick rundown.
Chris Barker:
Will's gonna give you. So tune in an idea of what we're gonna read back. The studio that you've just. The fantasy forever studio that you've just built. Okay.
Sarz:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
Okay, get ready. Here we go.
Will Betts:
We're on a clifftop.
Sarz:
Yes.
Will Betts:
With views of the sea.
Sarz:
Yes.
Will Betts:
In either Tanzania, Cape Town, or Nigeria. Where are you going? You gotta pick one. Pick one. Now. Tell me where.
Sarz:
Cape Town.
Will Betts:
Cape Town. There's natural light, and it doesn't have the feel of a studio. Your free items are an M three Max MacBook pro. Your interface is an Apollo X eight p. Your daw is Fl Studio 21.
Sarz:
I also want pro tools, but, yeah.
Will Betts:
You can't have it.
Sarz:
Okay. No problem. I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fine. It's fine.
Will Betts:
Your six items, you've started.
Chris Barker:
We don't do this with anybody that uses pro tools.
Sarz:
Go on.
Chris Barker:
Sorry, what?
Will Betts:
Your six items are cable guys.
Sarz:
Shaper box. Yes.
Will Betts:
Spectrosonic's omnisphere.
Sarz:
Yes.
Will Betts:
For speakers, you've chosen the III unit four s. You have Uber for musicians. Then your fifth item is the Sony C 800 g microphone. Are you going to take the one you use to record Wizkid? Are you going to steal that one or just any version?
Sarz:
Any version.
Will Betts:
Any version. And then your final item is fabfilter Pro Q three. How does that feel as your forever studio?
Sarz:
It's a great start. However, you failed to mention that the studio is wireless.
Will Betts:
Completely wireless.
Sarz:
And it has. What's that. What's that thing called?
Chris Barker:
The acoustic cone of. Cone of silence.
Sarz:
The cone of silence. You need to add those.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Well, I think we could add one.
Will Betts:
Of those as your luxury item.
Chris Barker:
Well, wireless can be given.
Will Betts:
Well, you will allow you wireless.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So. But you get a luxury item now. So is that the cone of silence? The luxury item, yes. I love that as a cone of silence.
Will Betts:
Amazing.
Chris Barker:
You can just place that cone of silence over where you're working or you could put it over a noisy family member.
Sarz:
Exactly. If someone. If someone is annoying you in the.
Chris Barker:
Studio, give them the cone of silence.
Sarz:
Yeah. And they're just talking and you can't hear anything else.
Chris Barker:
The dream cone of silence.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Just point.
Sarz:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
You could you. I'm gonna start saying that anyway.
Sarz:
Even.
Chris Barker:
Even though that's a horrible idea. Cone of silence. Right. Well, that brings us to the end of the podcast. Thank you so much for creating the mic.
Sarz:
Thank you so much.
Chris Barker:
And coming in sars. Thank you so much.
Sarz:
Thank you.