Our guest this time is one of the UK’s most in-demand vocalists and vocal producers: Raphaella. With over 500 million streams to her name, and an impressive list of credits including Rudimental, MK, David Guetta and Little Mix, she’s enjoying an incredible career. We talk “snakey melodies”, the perfect vocal compressor, the magic of historic mics and one plug-in effect she can’t live without.
Our guest this time is one of the UK’s most in-demand vocalists and vocal producers: Raphaella. With over 500 million streams to her name, and an impressive list of credits including Rudimental, MK, David Guetta and Little Mix, she’s enjoying an incredible career. We talk “snakey melodies”, the perfect vocal compressor, the magic of historic mics and one plug-in effect she can’t live without.
STUFF WE TALK ABOUT
https://www.instagram.com/raphaellamusic/
https://phraseddifferently.com/
https://www.instagram.com/itsjungleboi/?hl=en-gb
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isfahan
https://www.umusicpub.com/uk/Artists/E/Eg-White.aspx
https://zman.co.uk/clients/blair-mackichan.aspx
https://www.sontronics.com/aria
https://www.shure.com/en-GB/products/microphones/sm7b
https://www.instagram.com/tobyscottmusic/
http://www.tube-tech.com/cl-1b-opto-compressor/
https://www.uaudio.com/hardware/6176.html
https://sequential.com/product/prophet-6/
https://sequential.com/product/prophet-10/
https://steinway.co.uk/piano/model-d/
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/movies/hans-zimmer-dune.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_8t2VlwK4w
https://get.output.com/arcade-ear-candy
https://www.soundtoys.com/product/echoboy/
https://www.soundtoys.com/product/crystallizer/
https://www.soundtoys.com/product/microshift/
https://www.antarestech.com/products/auto-tune/pro
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/drums/battery-4/
https://soundcloud.com/marckinchen/2am-mk-dub-feat-carla-monroe
Chris Barker:
Hi, I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts:
And I'm Will Betts. And this is the MusicTech My Forever Studio podcast brought to you in partnership with Audient. And we are recording this time in TYX Studios, London.
Chris Barker:
That's right. In this podcast, we speak to musicians, DJ's, producers and engineers about their fantasy forever studio.
Will Betts:
The fantasy studio that our guests dream up today is one that they must live with for eternity. But even in studio foreverland, we do have some rules, don't we, Chris?
Chris Barker:
Yes, that's right. The rules. Our guests get to pick a daw, a computer and an audio interface. Everybody gets those. But then they just have six other bits of studio kit and one luxury item.
Will Betts:
There is one more rule though.
Raphaella:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
No bundles. That's right, no bundles. Anything sold as a package of software or hardware as a single item will not be allowed.
Will Betts:
Our guest this time is one of the UK's most in demand vocal producers with a string of incredible credits, including Galantis, Little Mix, and David Guetta.
Chris Barker:
Indeed. And as a gifted vocalist, she's featured on tracks by Rudimental MK, Martin Solveig and more, racking up over 500 million streams.
Will Betts:
That's right. This is my forever studio with raffaella.
Chris Barker:
Welcome, welcome.
Raphaella:
Hi. Thanks for having me.
Will Betts:
Thanks for coming on.
Raphaella:
It's such a nice intro. I was like, oh, we just cry in the corner.
Will Betts:
Incredible. This is the credits.
Chris Barker:
There.
Will Betts:
I was looking at your Spotify. I mean, holy moly. That's a lot of collaborations you've done.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Thank you. Incredible. I don't know, I've just been doing it since I was at uni and then sometimes I like, I don't know, someone says something, I'm like, oh yeah, I did do that. Oh, cool. I just plug away.
Chris Barker:
What was the first point where you were like, oh, that's a huge name. You know, somebody that I looked up to and I'm working with them or.
Raphaella:
Well, okay, so the first ever session I have with rudimental, I have like, I remember like kind of growing up, like listening to their music and stuff. And I had like a couple of weeks beforehand, I mean, maybe embarrassingly, I'd done a cover of their song Bloodstream with Ed Sheeran and so I had done a cover of it and then I was like, found myself in the studio with them and I was like, awkward, and I'm here. And he was just like, oh yeah, I saw your cover, it was really great. And I was like, oh, cool. And then I just had to kind of like, yeah. And I think at that moment, I was like, actually, do you know what? That's quite cool.
Chris Barker:
So was it very cool? Was it the COVID that led them to you? Or was it a commercial?
Raphaella:
No, I think that I'm signed, to phrase differently, for publishing. And I kind of think, like, the more you sort of work with people, you kind of just get introduced and hit. And my publisher, he introduced me, and my dad actually was managing me at the time to Greg Burnell. He was their manager at the time. We had a really cool meeting, and I just was playing songs and stuff, and he set up a session for us. And. Yeah, I think the cool thing about a session is it doesn't really matter who you are, what you've had in the chart. You're literally just people in a room making music and hoping that it will be magic.
Chris Barker:
Which is the best place to be. Right? That's how everybody. Well, a lot of people find their happy place, even originally. I think we all remember times in studios with friends or in bands with friends. When it becomes that again, it must be really nice where you just like.
Raphaella:
Yeah, it's really nice. It's just like, there's just a ma. I always say there's, like, a magic in the studio. Cause the doors close, there's no Anr. There's no manager. We love them. Yeah, they're great. But it's just so nice.
Raphaella:
Cause it's literally just great.
Chris Barker:
Leveler for everybody as well.
Raphaella:
Yeah, it's so nice. And there's just magic that I think it's, like about 03:00 in the afternoon, generally, like, you know, you've got. Generally, you'll have verse, pre chorus and chorus by that point, and you kind of just can relax and just be like this. It's cool. And you just are listening to it and you're like, this didn't exist this morning.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah.
Raphaella:
Which is really nice. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Plucked it out of the sky.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So before we start building this forever studio and we'll get to, like, location and stuff at the start, tell us a bit more about that route into music, basically, like, from, I guess, being a singer initially or were you trained?
Raphaella:
No, actually, I, like, started classically, so I was classically trained. I was six when I started, like, violin. I was a really uncool kid. I was in orchestras. I was, like, rock on. I literally was that extracurricular kid. And I was in orchestras on Saturday mornings and stuff. So I first of all started learning violin and then piano like, a year later.
Raphaella:
So I kind of learnt how to read music around the same time as I was reading. Learning to read. Wow. And so it was just sort of like, I loved it. And my granddad, he just was obsessed with records, and he would always have, like, a. He had the most insane record collection. He was very precious about his, like, about his system. And he was like, no one can touch it.
Raphaella:
The only I can set it up, like, use it. And so I grew up around that. My great auntie, she was a concert violinist. So, yeah, I started classically, which is great, but I've always wanted to create. And I'd get really frustrated because my music teachers would basically be like, you're not playing it exactly how, like, Mozart wrote it. And I'm like, that's because it needs something else. Well, I mean, not to say anything against Mozart, but, you know, in your heart you're like, I just want to express. And that it'd be so specific, even down to kind of like, the dynamics.
Raphaella:
It would be written exactly how you need to play it, so it didn't allow for much expression other than what was actually written. And you'd be penalized for not actually, you know, crescendoing when you needed to. And if it was mezzo forte instead of, like, fort de fortissimo, you know.
Chris Barker:
How much leeway is there in music?
Raphaella:
Well, I mean, in classical music, I mean, there's got to be.
Chris Barker:
What I mean is there's got to be holes between that language.
Raphaella:
Yeah, but no, of course there's expression. But I think growing up as a twelve year old and your teacher being like, no, you didn't play it exactly how it's meant to. It didn't feel like there was much room to create. And I love to improvise. And then I went to performing art school, pineapple performing arts, when I was like, I think I was 14, 1314. There was this amazing gospel teacher called Daniel Thomas, and he basically just introduced me to the concept of improvising. And he. We were all in a circle and he was playing chords and he was.
Raphaella:
He just turns me and he was like, sing. And I was like, sing what? Because I was used to reading music.
Chris Barker:
And not, you know, have you sung much at this point?
Raphaella:
Say again?
Chris Barker:
Had you sung much? You weren't just.
Raphaella:
Oh, no, I was always singing. Yeah, I was very annoyed.
Chris Barker:
That came side by side with the violin.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah, I was always singing. I was, like, obsessed with sesame streets and I was singing, like, theme tune. And my parents like, shut up.
Will Betts:
123451 of the greatest songs ever written.
Raphaella:
I mean, hands down. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, and then I kind of, like, got into the gospel choir at that performing art school, and he just. He was like, sing. And I was like, what do you mean? He was like, just sing what's in your heart, what you hear. And I was like, I just did it. I just improvised. I was like, whoa, this is magic.
Raphaella:
So, yeah, that kind of opened up my brain to, like, somebody allowing you to do that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then I wrote, like, my first song, and I was, like, just playing around and stuff. And my parents gave me a tascam, four track recorder, I think, around the same time. Classic. And so I just started playing with, like, layering up piano lines and, like, chords and then, like, a melody line over the top and then, like, different bb lines and stuff. And then I was like, what a gift.
Chris Barker:
That's great.
Raphaella:
It was amazing. And then I found out that there was a thing called logic when I was 16 that blew my mind all over again because I was like, whoa, you can have, like, 200 tracks.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Raphaella:
So, yeah.
Will Betts:
What was that like for you? Cause I know that some people find that not having to reduce down the ideas and, like, bounce down or have a limited. I mean, a four track limited was too.
Raphaella:
Yeah, it did.
Will Betts:
Was that too limited?
Raphaella:
It was too limited, because in my head, when I was writing, I wasn't even thinking as production. No one told me what I was doing was producing. I was like, obviously there needs to be a bass, and I'm hearing, like, a string, like. Cause I was in orchestras, so I would hear string parts and stuff, and. And then there could be, I don't know, like a synth or a weird sound here. And so in my head, I was like, I just wanted. When I first found out about logic, one of my friends, knight, he now goes by the name jungle boy shout out. I was just watching him and he just laid it up.
Raphaella:
It was more just the freedom that anything in your head, if you wanted a drum, you could program a drum because there was a plugin that had a drum and you had a keyboard, but you could go, poof, and you've got a kick. Poof, you've got a tom. And I was like, whoa, this is amazing. And you could just layer and layer and layer. And then it wasn't just that, it was what you could do with that. Then there's, like, reverbs and there's delays, and then there's, like, chorus effects. There's all these effects. So, yeah, I think it was never going to be enough.
Chris Barker:
It's good that you found it. You found it exciting, though, because, like you say, sometimes that world can sort of change the way you make music in a bad way, because it's like the limitation was kind of the nice thing.
Will Betts:
But I think that's. Yeah, that's the thing that some people talk about is saying, you know, they miss their four tracks because you had to really think about what you were doing with it rather than going, oh, well, I'll figure that out later and just keep it.
Raphaella:
No, I weirdly don't miss it categorically. No, no, I think it's great because it does make you think. But I just. I love the freedom of being able to kind of, like, just. Yeah, have everything at your finger. Fingertips, basically.
Chris Barker:
Okay, so let's move on to the first part of the studio build, which is location. Where would you have your studio if you could have it? Anywhere in the world? And what would it look like?
Raphaella:
I was thinking about this and it's really difficult, I think. What would be amazing. So I'm half Persian and I can't go to Iran for many reasons. And I think I'm actually from Esfahan, which is a beautiful place, and I've only been. When I was a baby, I've just seen pictures. I know my soul was there, my body was there, but I don't remember. And I think a studio in Sfahan and a free esfahan would be amazing because it's actually illegal for a woman to sing in public in Iran. So I feel like that would be, for so many reasons, amazing.
Raphaella:
Plus, the actual landscape is incredible. It's so beautiful. It's so green and lush and there's parks everywhere. And so for me to feel like you can walk out and there's just nature around you as well, is really inspiring. Instead of currently, my studio, which I love, is in a basement. So, yeah, I think, like a bit.
Chris Barker:
Of a change from that.
Raphaella:
Yeah, exactly.
Chris Barker:
And what kind of. Is there a specific building in mind or style of architecture there?
Raphaella:
So there's like, basically a square in Esfahan, which is, like, really famous. I think it. I think there. That would be amazing.
Chris Barker:
Looking out onto the square.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Wow.
Will Betts:
I mean, I'm looking at some of the architecture here. Incredible. This blue mosque looks, like, just as astonishing.
Raphaella:
Yeah, it's amazing and it's so inspiring. So you kind of, like, can. In my head, I get inspired by what I see. My studio at the moment's in Shoreditch and just walking around, you see, like, graffiti and art and stuff and it's gritty. And it gives you. I think it really affects what kind of music you make.
Chris Barker:
I mean, I think that's well known where people are. You know, you get a lot of the sort of techno comes out of quite industrial, industrial kind of places like Detroit and Sheffield with electronic music and Berlin, obviously.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
You very rarely get that kind of sound out of a beautiful, sunny, beach type location.
Raphaella:
Dorset.
Chris Barker:
Dorset. Techno.
Raphaella:
Yeah. It's a reason. But like surf.
Will Betts:
Surf music.
Chris Barker:
Right.
Will Betts:
Feels like it comes from the beach.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
I don't know why.
Raphaella:
Yeah, there's just. I think there's a. There's a DNA in it, isn't there? You can think.
Chris Barker:
You can't help it be affected by your surroundings.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So how do you think it would affect your music?
Raphaella:
I think that I've always had a little. I call them snaky melodies, which is a bit of like, kind of without even trying a little bit of spice added to melodies. That has my heritage kind of woven into it. So I think probably more of that, I think. And then mix it. I don't know what it is. But because it's such an old city and there's so much history, I think maybe more analog, kind of a more analog approach would be quite cool.
Will Betts:
Is that what you're gonna do in this? Oh, we're gonna find out. We're gonna find out.
Raphaella:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
So we've locked in the location now. Yes.
Will Betts:
Inside the studio. Then. What's the vibe that you're.
Raphaella:
Okay. So first off, and I have one in my current studio.
Chris Barker:
Wait, wait, wait. We're not talking about equipment yet.
Raphaella:
Oh, no, no. This is not.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
This is not. This is not equipment.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Okay.
Raphaella:
Bear with me.
Chris Barker:
Sorry.
Raphaella:
Is a persian carpet okay?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah.
Raphaella:
Ten out of ten. So I think just to create the vibe, to create the atmosphere, I feel like there's something really. I love cozy studios. When you go in and you just kind of feel like you can relax. And also there's like freedom to create. So I think immediately a persian carpet.
Will Betts:
Shoes off.
Raphaella:
Always agree. Well, in Farsi, in iranian households we have these things called dampai, which is basically like guest. Kind of like house shoes. House shoes. There's always like a line of danpai varying different sizes. It's quite funny. So quite swedish, actually. In swedish, like studios, they do that.
Chris Barker:
Oh, do they?
Raphaella:
Yeah. People like, leave their shoes outside the studio.
Will Betts:
Who's got the best selection of shoes that you've seen studio wise?
Raphaella:
Oh, no, they don't have others. They don't have other shoes. They don't have danpai.
Will Betts:
Oh, okay.
Raphaella:
To be fair. But they take their shoes off before going to.
Chris Barker:
It's a sock situation. It's so socks.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Studios nightmare.
Raphaella:
Yeah. So I think a persian carpet and then a samovar to get a tea on the go.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
For vibe.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Raphaella:
Yeah. With an espresso machine in the corner. Extra caffeine.
Will Betts:
So a good sort of kitchen situation.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Chris Barker:
But again, a homely vibe. A welcoming, homely vibe. It's not too business like. It's not too.
Raphaella:
A nice, comfy sofa. I think we need some nice mood lighting.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
Some fairy lights.
Chris Barker:
Windows.
Raphaella:
Windows. But, like, in the old, traditional. I don't know if you've seen in, like, the. The square. They're sort of, like, arch. I don't know how to explain it.
Chris Barker:
I think they had them on there. I don't know if they were the same on that mosque.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Sort of pointed arches.
Raphaella:
Exactly. Yeah. So, like, that, basically, I think, could.
Chris Barker:
Be really cool looking out over the square.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Oh. With some. Some indoor plants, too.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Okay. This is a great vibe.
Raphaella:
It's great.
Will Betts:
Yeah. It's a. Feels like a creative space.
Raphaella:
Yeah, I think so.
Chris Barker:
And then let's move on to the three free items, which is your computer, your daw, and your audio interface. What are we selecting for these three?
Raphaella:
Okay, so we're gonna go for what I've actually just got, which is a new MacBook Pro with the. It's like m three max.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
M three.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Nice.
Raphaella:
I know. I like the power because it's portable. Yeah. You know, but it's also kind of, like, quite powerful, so you can do what you need to do. I'm gonna create fights here, but I'm logic pro until the day I die.
Chris Barker:
No fights.
Will Betts:
No fights here.
Raphaella:
Okay. No specific one.
Chris Barker:
But it's rare that people. A lot of people have, like, a little battle there between two. Some people use multi doors.
Raphaella:
Well, the thing is, I use ableton as well, which is really good fun. But I think I'm probably gonna do one forever.
Chris Barker:
I mean, you could still get Ableton in your six items, but.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Park that.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
But you're thinking for your freedom, I.
Raphaella:
Think for my free door logic, it's my first language.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Raphaella:
And I'm really fun, you know, and I like. I love doing vocals in logic. Yes. It's also really creative instruments.
Chris Barker:
The vocal comping tools, actually. Oh, yeah.
Raphaella:
Fantastical.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Raphaella:
And then.
Chris Barker:
Because you can do that.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Sorry. I'm not a logic guy, but you can do that thing where you kind of mute it, kind of moves between tracks as you highlight bricks and phrase for it. But, yeah, very cool.
Raphaella:
And the marquee tool is literally just. It's my bro. I'm so like, bam, bam, bam.
Chris Barker:
I mean, what before.
Will Betts:
It's not your secondary tool, is it that your primary tool, marquee?
Raphaella:
And that's my secondary tool. I'm not a heathen. It's a radical. It's a thing that a lot of.
Chris Barker:
People that record vocals forget, though, just how much editing and comping goes into it.
Raphaella:
So much.
Chris Barker:
A single vocal take. I mean, what would your advice be for people that are getting vocals and they think it's not sounding right, just.
Raphaella:
Practice and experiment because I literally.
Chris Barker:
And don't be afraid. Right?
Raphaella:
That's like, yeah, yeah. And I started just teaching myself. Like, I didn't. I mean, I went on to do a music degree and there was music production within that, but I'd already kind of, like, experimented for hours and hours and hours. Just saying, like, oh, what does this do? And if I do this, I crossfade like this. What does that do? And just trust your ears. Just follow your ears. And also, YouTube is brilliant.
Raphaella:
If ever. You're just like, I don't understand why this isn't, for example, like, cross fading in the way I want it to. Or, like, why is there this or that? It's great. The University of YouTube is fabulous.
Chris Barker:
What about the performance aspect? Like, how I'm not a vocalist by any means, so I don't know. And I've not done vocal editing, so. But how small will you go for an edit or a re record? Will you go to a word or a phrase?
Raphaella:
Yeah, you can go to a syllable. You can even go to an end of, like, if, for example, something has.
Chris Barker:
The wrong vibrato at the end.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Or even, for example, like, an s is too quiet at the end to edit that, to kind of bring it up so it kind of has the same presence as the rest, or if you prefer, like a cursed, like a kind of a plosive of something else that I would literally, I could comp to a p, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
That's what I was. That's why I was interested, because I think some people hearing this, if they're not too far on in their music production career, will be surprised. That's.
Raphaella:
And there's also nothing wrong with it. It doesn't mean you've done a bad take. That's the other thing, because I think a lot of times people are like, oh, it has to be done in one take. And you don't. Absolutely not. True.
Chris Barker:
And nothing on the radio is.
Raphaella:
No, nothing. And there's actually no, there's nothing wrong with that. I think part of it is sort of like, find for me, I'm weird. Cause I actually love comping. It's one of my favorite things.
Will Betts:
Wow.
Raphaella:
You know, really weird. I'm like, oh, let's get stuck into this comp. And I kind of think that there's actually. It's almost like an instrument with itself within itself, because those choices you make completely change the performance and completely change the actual identity of the song. And I think that it's a certain skill within itself that you shouldn't feel bad that you're having to do. It's not that you're having to do it, it's that it actually helps the actual performance by doing it helps the song.
Chris Barker:
And that's the. I think what I was trying to get at is that's the amount of time and effort it takes down to.
Raphaella:
Those, down to the syllable, down to the.
Chris Barker:
To make a professional sounding pop vocal.
Raphaella:
And sometimes the tone, like, for me, tone and emotion is the most important. Timing can be fixed. Tune can be fixed. Even vibrato can be fixed. If something has. There's just when you listen to it, it has an energy or it hits in a way that makes you feel something. That's the most important part. And then if, for example, you're like, okay, it has a tiny bit too much, like, vibrato at the end, you can edit that down.
Will Betts:
What, just a melodyne or something?
Raphaella:
Yeah. And you just make that kind of vibrato just less basically smaller. So, yeah, the parameters of that, just more chill and. Yeah, and then it does. So you've kept the essence of that take and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Will Betts:
And in terms of vocal recording and vocal production, then maybe you can speak to how much work goes into the layering as well. Because I think certainly when I was working with vocalists, it get to a point where maybe the sound isn't quite as you want it to be and you've got doubles or whatever and it's still not quite there. How many layers do you go with when you're for a polished production?
Raphaella:
I think it all depends on the song and it depends on what kind of sound you're going for. There's certain songs that literally need one incredible lead and it speaks for itself and maybe a couple of doubles, but then there's other. I think if you're trying to make it sound good with doubles through layers. Then I would go back to the lead and say, what's going wrong with the lead?
Will Betts:
Got it.
Raphaella:
That's what I would do. I think you don't. I wouldn't rely on making it sound good with billions of layers because the layers fixing it in the mix, the layers should be there to me anyway. And that's how I like to work, to kind of complement the overall sound. And they add sort of color to what you've already got, rather than icing.
Chris Barker:
A badly made cake.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Chris Barker:
Don't slice it.
Raphaella:
Only look at it from this angle. Yeah, but if you've got loads of layers and it's still not feeling right, then there's something. And often this happens and I'll have to go back and I'll be like, okay, something isn't feeling right. It's something to do with the lead. And there's an energy and there's a tone that isn't quite right, that isn't working. So often I will actually mute the lead and keep the BV. I'll solo all the bvs with the track. Does that feel good? Does that feel like something can go over it and feel right? If so, then I just, with, like, fresh ears and vim and vigor, will re record kind of.
Raphaella:
And what I do often also is if there's a certain section that's not feeling right often. I used to record in sections quite a lot. I'd be like, right, let's do verse, let's do pre, let's do chorus, let's do verse, let's do pre. And that can create quite a. A of disjointed performance bit. So often what I do is I will, you know, if we start like that. Cool. But then actually, once all the bvs are done, I will go from the top and be like, right, let's do a whole take from beginning to end.
Raphaella:
And actually, that's how I record a lot of my vocals myself that I'm on. I'll do it from beginning to end because I know performance wise, what does it need? It. Does it need more vocal fry? Does it need more of a push? Does it need a little bit of a variation of a melody? Does it need, like. And each section going from, like, a verse to a. A chorus feels like a story because that's how the listener's listening to it. They're not listening to it on loop for, like, the eight bars. Exactly. And all those sections need to make sense so that's what I kind of do.
Raphaella:
Or at least go from, like, halfway through the pre chorus and then go into the chorus, because then, you know, kind of like what it needs.
Chris Barker:
It's like another food analogy, but, like, when chefs or people developing food, they just have one taste and they're not finishing the whole dish. And I always think that sometimes you go to restaurants and something's too rich or too salty.
Raphaella:
That's true.
Chris Barker:
One bite might isn't the whole story of the whole thing.
Raphaella:
And it's kind of like writing a book, but basically writing it in chapters. But one chapter a year or no. Or even going. Or even going from, like, chapter six.
Chris Barker:
Oh, yeah.
Raphaella:
Back to chapter one, back to chapter 24. It's that kind of feel. It can create that kind of feeling.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, I suppose, actually, that's. That's one of the dangers with technology, of having this ability to record non linear.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
And the amount of editing that you can do is that you can get individually, all these things are perfect and together as a whole. It doesn't flashes, it doesn't make sense.
Raphaella:
It can feel like it's then disjointed. So then I always try to just go and do it from the beginning to end, because then you'll have a little bit of magic in between each part and maybe a little ad lib that just rises up into something that just was felt in the moment, and it's magic, and you can't create that.
Will Betts:
So, yeah, when you're the featured artist on a track, are you delivering your own vocals that you've produced or how does that. Okay, right. So that process is you're doing all of that production, and then.
Raphaella:
Yeah, that's mostly the case with, like, most things I've been on. And I kind of. Because for me, the sound of my vocal and the way I process it is quite individual to my voice as well. I can always hear. I can tell when it's. When I haven't done it, if that makes sense. And I kind of feel like, because I produce as well, it's kind of quite an important part of my identity as an artist is the way my vocals process. I'm quite like, I'm really weird.
Raphaella:
Like, if I'm working with someone and they're recording me, I'll be like, I'm really sorry to be, like, super weird about this, kint, but I have my exact settings that I like to have on each plugin.
Chris Barker:
I think a lot of artists do that now as well.
Raphaella:
And I have my vocal chain and stuff. That I like.
Chris Barker:
So Ariana Grande does all that as well, all of her own vocal edits and stuff.
Will Betts:
I mean, Kylie as well, meant to be incredible vocal producer as well.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because your comp, if you think about it, it's kind of like editing. It's like a photographer will take a hundred photos, and the editing process is actually super important. And it's the same kind of thing because you can create an entire, like, identity from a comp. And it sounds so weird, but, like, sometimes I don't like something that's too, like an eye that's too bright, because I'm like, no, it's not cool enough. And it'll be like, I I. Tiny little things like that someone, if you don't know, be like, oh, that sounds cool.
Will Betts:
But then, you know, I mean, you know your own voice better than anyone, right? And because you've listened to it so much.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
I mean, I know there's that thing with people when they hear their own voice back for the first time. I go, good lord. I don't sound like that.
Raphaella:
I feel like that with my speaking voice. I kind of like. I'm deadened to my own singing voice now. I've become so. Not that I'm critical, but I kind of am past that. I'm like, yeah, I just see it for what it is, and I. Can.
Chris Barker:
Can you treat it like another person when you're editing it?
Raphaella:
Almost. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I can't listen back to myself when I was younger. I absolutely can't do that. It's really weird. I feel like my voice has kind of dropped. And before, when I was younger, it was much higher. I had a weird american accent.
Raphaella:
I don't know what I was doing.
Chris Barker:
I was just gonna say, just kind of a trait of being younger, though. Sometimes you're trying to be somebody else.
Raphaella:
Something else, exactly. Yeah. And actually, as I think it probably happens to. I don't know if. I'm sure it happens to men as well, but for women, our voices drop.
Chris Barker:
About 13, I think it was for me, Chris.
Raphaella:
But, yeah, my voice is literally dropped.
Chris Barker:
I didn't know whether to say that. In other words, say it.
Raphaella:
It landed well. Yeah.
Will Betts:
So, yeah, but your voice obviously develops over time.
Raphaella:
It changes. So my voice has dropped. Now I can reach down to, like, a c below middle c before I like an f below middle c. I.
Chris Barker:
Was like, it's so low, and there's, like, confidence and being comfortable with yourself as well.
Raphaella:
Exactly. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So we're on audio interface now. As the last of the three free items.
Raphaella:
Definitely. Universal audio. Do you know what? Let's go. Simple. Because of what's coming up, I'm just going to go for an Apollo twin.
Will Betts:
Nice.
Raphaella:
Yes.
Will Betts:
Easy.
Raphaella:
Because it's portable.
Chris Barker:
Say you've got the laptop, you're going for the portable angle here first. Okay.
Will Betts:
Sling all that in a bag.
Raphaella:
Exactly.
Will Betts:
Go and work in another studio.
Raphaella:
Exactly. Travel. We can go outside even. I love that because you can just literally take it anywhere and just sit. There was one time, like, my dad has a persian carpet, random persian carpet shop in Stockbridge in Hampshire.
Chris Barker:
That's where we get the carpet from.
Raphaella:
Right? Indeed. Of course.
Will Betts:
Always.
Raphaella:
And sometimes for free, actually. So I hope it's free. Can you imagine? Yeah. And like, sometimes I just go down to the country, like at the weekend just to get, like, a different perspective. And I just take my portable gear and I just kind of sit and I just, I just write and produce and it gives, like, a nice little change of scenery that must actually blow.
Chris Barker:
People'S minds that, you know, works in studios in the seventies and, like, you know.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Can you imagine?
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
I mean, do you record in the. In the carpet shop? That must have incredibly dead acoustic.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah, it was great. Yeah, yeah, it's great. And then also, I kind of.
Chris Barker:
Nobody can hear you scream in the carpet shop. Terrifying.
Will Betts:
It is terrifying.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
The way you said it. Yeah. Ever since I was 13.
Raphaella:
My gosh. Yeah, no, it's really, it's nice. That's chill. Because basically I used to, when we were little, my dad used to play this game and he'd be like, oh, if you. We would go with him to kind of client meetings and stuff sometimes, and he'd just like, leave us in the warehouse. And he. I remember he said to me when I was like, I must be like six. He's like, if you sit in the middle of the carpet and you press the button in the middle, it wasn't, it's not a button, it's just a medallion of the design.
Raphaella:
And you wish hard enough, you'll be able to fly on the carpet. So me, having watched Aladdin, I was like, oh, my God, I could be jasmine. Princess Jasmine. It's like the only Disney character I related to. I could be Jasmine. So I would sit there and I'd be like, oh, I'm not flying. It's not working hard enough. It was not working.
Raphaella:
My dad would be like, it's because we're not wishing hard enough. So I was occupied for an hour.
Will Betts:
Wow.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Tricks yeah, I know. I was young.
Chris Barker:
One day he came back, you were gone.
Raphaella:
Jokes on you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm, like, singing, but, yeah, so it's always. It kind of always feels kind of, like, homely to me. I've often just sat on a carpet and it's just like. It just feels like a vibe. It's quite, like, nice and gives a. When you relax your mind, your brain is open to new ideas.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. And it makes sense to have it there. Yeah. I guess we should move on to the actual six items then.
Will Betts:
Let's do it.
Chris Barker:
Item number one.
Raphaella:
This is so hard. I have to be honest, I still haven't decided entirely. I'm gonna decide as we go.
Will Betts:
That's fine.
Chris Barker:
That's how we roll them.
Raphaella:
Sadistic, actually. I don't know who came up with this. It's just not possible.
Chris Barker:
Who knows?
Will Betts:
Scholars maintain.
Raphaella:
Right, okay, I have a list. I have a list. Okay, so what we're gonna start with. We're gonna have to obviously start with a microphone number one. So there is a dream microphone that I would like to lovingly steal from someone's studio.
Chris Barker:
Oh, yeah, we love this, which is.
Raphaella:
Egg White's U 47 Neumann. Because I basically recorded with this when I was like, I think I was 22 and I was working with this producer called Blair me Keekin. And he was borrowing it from egg White. And he was like, literally chasing pavements has been recorded on this. Amy Winehouse. And I was staring at this mic and I was like, I was 22 and I was like, it's one of my first sessions. I'm quite a believer that particularly like analog gear or just gear that has a history, has a magic to it.
Chris Barker:
So it retains some of it.
Raphaella:
I feel like it does retain some of the magic. Aside from it being a beautiful microphone, I personally have U 87, which is great, but I feel like it just has a real warmth. And I think for the history of it, I'm going with that microphone.
Will Betts:
That's a great choice. It was also used to record Lewis Capaldi's someone you love.
Raphaella:
Well, there you go. Say less draw.
Chris Barker:
It's great.
Will Betts:
Great choice.
Raphaella:
I think it would be great just to have that. I feel like it has a soul. Yeah.
Will Betts:
And that's so important, isn't it, to be surrounded by things that you feel like are going to inspire you to produce your best performance?
Raphaella:
Yeah, exactly. I think so. And I think just in general, like, Neumann microphones have got such a beautiful warmth about them. They're kind of like my choice.
Chris Barker:
It's sort of the sound of a lot of pop music as well. It's a bit like the SSL effect.
Raphaella:
It is, yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
It kind of becomes self fulfilling. Like they use this because it sounds like this.
Raphaella:
No, but I actually think in a great way. I think if you're like team. I think there's two people. Team Manly or Team Neumann. I think Manlys are beautiful. They really are. But for my voice specifically, I think they can sound a little bit too polished and too pop. There's kind of like a warmth and kind of.
Raphaella:
If I say a grit, that's not necessarily correct, but like, there's a color to annoy men that I really love.
Chris Barker:
So.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
And so is it just that one time you used it then?
Raphaella:
Yes, just that one time.
Will Betts:
And the way your vocal came out, were you just like.
Raphaella:
Yeah, it was beautiful. It was so gorgeous. And I think.
Chris Barker:
So is that why you ended up purchasing, do you got an 87? Is this a 47?
Raphaella:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
The hallowed 47.
Will Betts:
It is hallowed, indeed.
Raphaella:
Indeed. But that specific one. Yeah, you could go and buy one off, but, yeah, but is that why.
Chris Barker:
You went for the stay with Neumann or did you already have it?
Raphaella:
No, that is why I stayed with Neumann. Yeah, exactly. And then because I use a lot of different microphones in studios and stuff and I kind of. You kind of. Just by recording every day, you kind of get to know different gear and. Yeah, that's why.
Will Betts:
So are there any other mics that you've used where you've been like, this is like an affordable but also close second or close, you know, top five.
Raphaella:
Sontronics is an incredible company. And I had an Ari. I still have the Ari. And it's beautiful. It's a really great. It's a gorgeous tube mic, it's a valve mic. And it's just really, really warm and lovely. And I still have that and I still use that as well.
Raphaella:
And a lot of my vocal that you hear on the radio, on Spotify, recorded with that, you struggle to say.
Chris Barker:
That 500 million.
Raphaella:
Throw myself in the corner and die.
Chris Barker:
But no, that's great. So a lot of the stuff that people will hear on those over 500 million streams will be the suntronics maze.
Raphaella:
Yes, exactly. And they're just such a lovely team as well. Really, really lovely.
Will Betts:
What about for performance, then?
Raphaella:
For performance? Hmm.
Will Betts:
Is that going to be one of your six or are you not?
Raphaella:
No, it's not going to be one of my six.
Will Betts:
Intrigued?
Raphaella:
No, I think obviously the short sm seven B is great. I think that's. It's an incredible mic.
Chris Barker:
It's these ones that we're on.
Raphaella:
Yeah, exactly.
Chris Barker:
If anybody's listening or watching, which is brilliant with the cloudlifters, I think. Yep.
Raphaella:
And you can just literally throw it around and take it abroad everywhere and it sounds great. And you can kind of. Toby Scott. Shout out to Toby Scott. He literally, he. I was always of the mind that if you're gonna be recording, like, finished vocals, it needs to be a condenser microphone. That's. That's the school of thought that I've been brought up on.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Raphaella:
And I was quite a purist. And he was just like, I went down to his studio in Brighton, he handed me the sm. Like, nope. He was like, trust me, I was like. And then I said, cool. So I recorded, like, the whole day through it. And the man, it's just. He made magic with this mic and I know, obviously, it's so flat and so brilliant and so clear.
Raphaella:
So I think for a dynamic microphone, I think it's wonderful. I think this is the choice. And he completely convinced me. And I was like, cool. I think it was like, the next day I was like, fine, gonna go buy it. Dammit.
Will Betts:
Was it handheld when you were using it?
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
How much of that do you think was part of why it worked for you?
Raphaella:
Oh, I think it's so. It's a completely different way of kind of approaching recording. And I was like, I think with, with a kind of handheld mic, you can just sit on a sofa. I was actually just sitting down and it kind of has a feeling of, like, obviously, when you're holding something, it feels more like a performance. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
That can come out of your voice.
Raphaella:
Yeah, exactly. It feels more of a performance. And also, weirdly, if you're recording every day as a recording artist, like, you, you kind of get used to the concept of standing and it feeling official and it feeling like this is the final vocal and there's something, like, mental that goes on there, that sort of like, whether you want to call it, like, you know, you have, like, a red light syndrome where you're just like, oh, it's recording. There's kind of an approach to it, whereas I feel whenever I'm holding the sm, I'm just more relaxed. In a weird way, you'd see it.
Chris Barker:
With rappers where especially the starts of their careers, where they were used to winning rap battles or performing or that kind of, or, you know, recording at home like this. Then they get to a studio and it's like, I don't really know.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Like, ah.
Will Betts:
What do you do with your hands.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
You would sort of give them a. Give them a mic.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
You know, to sort of just as a prop to get them to perform rather than do that. Strange.
Raphaella:
Also, it's a brilliant way of, like, I. The way I write often is just by freestyling. So I just put myself on record. And then there won't be necessarily specific lyrics, but there'll be words and maybe tons of phrases that come out. And there's just a freedom that you have when you do that. When you're then holding a mic that in your head, you're like, this doesn't feel final and forever and often then you get magic because you're not thinking about it. It just kind of like, flows out.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
That's such a great tip as well for people recording.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
Love that action number two.
Raphaella:
Okay. Dun dun dun dun. Right. We're gonna stick for vocals for now. So I think if I in my dream studio to get a good vocal set up, numero uno. So we're going to go for the tube tech cl one b as a compressor.
Will Betts:
That's not a common choice on this.
Raphaella:
Podcast, is it not?
Will Betts:
No.
Raphaella:
Interesting. Okay.
Chris Barker:
Which we like.
Raphaella:
It's like, okay, that's good. I was thinking, oh, God, I'm going to be so 101 here. I think it's just such a beautiful compressor, and it's what we used on the little mix album Metropolis. That's actually when I first kind of got familiar with it and I was like, whoa, what is this magic item? It's a blue box. Holds so much.
Chris Barker:
Is it like a remake of something else based on or. It's its own thing, right?
Raphaella:
I'm quite sure it's its own thing, but don't quote me on that. No, I think it was its own thing.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Misinformation. I was sure it was, but because it has that look, I was thinking, is this trying to imitate something else from, like, the fifties or whatever? But I don't think it is.
Raphaella:
I don't think so. But I might be wrong.
Will Betts:
No, it seems to be its own.
Chris Barker:
The tube tech.
Will Betts:
The tube tech?
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Like, I know a lot of people are like, oh, you can do it in the box and you definitely can. 100% you can.
Will Betts:
Sure.
Raphaella:
But I feel like when I kind of was working with raw vocals, completely dry that had gone through that, I was like, sold to the persian lady.
Chris Barker:
So that's going in on the vocal chain and that's going in. Okay, so you're committing. That's not something after the fact. Okay.
Raphaella:
And it's. It's just. It's really, really beautiful. Adds such a lovely color. And I actually just. I haven't got stuck in with it yet, but I've literally just bought my own. So I was. I have a UAD 6176, and that's brilliant because it's kind of like a limiter as well as a preamp.
Raphaella:
You can split. So it's like two for the price of one, which would. I was thinking about that. I was like, that would be cheating because then, well, not cheating.
Chris Barker:
You can have.
Will Betts:
That's a great.
Raphaella:
It would be small because it's like two for the price of one. But actually, I was like, you know.
Chris Barker:
What gets around our bundle rule?
Raphaella:
It really does.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Raphaella:
So maybe the smarter choice probably would have been that. But I love the tube tech. I just think it's so beautiful. The color it brings is just, like, lovely. It's, like, crunchy.
Chris Barker:
But at the moment, you're using the pres on the UA.
Raphaella:
Yes. Yeah, I'm going through. Yeah, exactly. I'm splitting it. So I'm going through. I'm using the preamp and then using the tube tech as a compressor.
Will Betts:
Got it. And when you're tracking with the tube tech, how much compression do you like to track with? Because I know that some people can feel like you're limiting yourself.
Raphaella:
Yeah, too much, obviously. Cause you don't want to, like, just be like, that's it. Full stop.
Will Betts:
What is too much, though, on tracking, to your mind?
Raphaella:
I don't know. I just think. I kind of think, like, a bit of. So it feels like it's kind of a transient. Just it's there. You can feel the color, but it's not kind of too slammed. So, yeah, I kind of feel like that's a nice. I have my settings on my 6176.
Raphaella:
I'm just like, I took a picture because I'm like, just in case you kind of, like, play around with stuff. And I was like, you know, if it gets moved around, I'm like, I'm going to have to do this all over again.
Chris Barker:
You see studios like that, though, where they have pres and things where they're marked? Oh, yeah, this light goes into that.
Raphaella:
Yeah, actually, I have my settings for my 6176. I can let you know if you like.
Will Betts:
I mean, look, you'd be interested. Let's do it. With it being an optical compressor having, like, fast attacks, how important is that? Is that part of the coloration?
Raphaella:
Fast attack, personally? So, yeah, I think I think it is. I love the fact that you can really play around with it and it's not like, kind of. There's so many parameters that you can play with. I personally like a fast attack, but not too much. Kind of like not too slammed ratio. Do you see?
Will Betts:
Just trying to sort of level out.
Raphaella:
The performance and it just adds a color that you can kind of tell.
Chris Barker:
So with your new. With the tube now you've got one.
Raphaella:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
Do you think it'll be similar where you'll find.
Raphaella:
I think so.
Chris Barker:
A point and then just leave it.
Raphaella:
And that'll be your settings? Yeah, that's kind of like what I like to do. Obviously, it depends what kind of voice. If you've got a male voice coming in, it might be different or a kind of more.
Chris Barker:
But for you, you'll have.
Raphaella:
Yeah. For me, personally, I'm like, that's great. Done, right? Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Nice.
Will Betts:
So we're not going to like, glue it or anything. We're not going to like, stick it in epoxy and then be like, you're done. That doesn't change.
Raphaella:
That's just how it sounds now.
Chris Barker:
Okay, so item number three.
Raphaella:
Okay, so I think we're going to move away. We're going to go for instruments, I think a profit. Six. Good choice, which I have and I love. It's like I always joke and say, it's my firstborn. I don't have any children, but when I do, I'd still be my firstborn.
Chris Barker:
I'll never be as good as that kid.
Raphaella:
My whole life I was trying to.
Chris Barker:
Live up to that. Just didn't have enough teeth. Nice.
Raphaella:
Yeah, exactly.
Will Betts:
What is it about that, then?
Raphaella:
So I'm an artist for sequential. So shout out sequential. And they were like, really, really lovely. And I think, like, I got to know kind of prophets through different studios that I've been in. There is a warmth about that synth that I could literally live in for my whole life and be happy. And it's just so versatile. Like the fact that you can, I think, like the first year I got it, I just basically spent hours just creating different kind of like banks, banks, banks of my own sounds and just like playing with it. And I think it's so versatile because you can have a really beautiful, warm synth.
Raphaella:
You can create a sub bass. You can create all kinds of different basses. You can create percussion. You can create so many different kind of sounds. Different. Like, I love playing with it. With sort of like playing. I go through.
Raphaella:
I'm not allowed to do this because this is not one of my sort of, like. It's not one of my instruments plugins, but I kind of go. I put it through kind of, like, micro shift or different amp, like, guitar pedals even, to create cool, different, like, effects and colors and stuff. And I just love mixing it with. With actual in the box plugins. So, yeah, I think it's just really versatile. I kind of use. Arturia has some great ones.
Raphaella:
And then I kind of, like. I basically just open up sound toys. Yep.
Will Betts:
Good job.
Raphaella:
And just basically create loads of random sounds. And then guitar rig as well is great. Playing with stuff. And then I have a couple of, like, different. Yeah, different things I just. I like to play around with.
Will Betts:
So what's the goal? Is it to try and make it sound a little less like it's just going straight into your computer, like air or something? Is that right?
Raphaella:
I kind of like. So some of them, I kind of like to. If something is, like, really clean, I like to kind of make it sound more colorful. And it's really hard without my computer. So kind of, like, show you what I would. To, like, explain. I just kind of, like, widen it, kind of go through, sort of like a guitar pedal that makes it kind of feel like there's more distortion, there's more color, and mash it up, and then kind of, like, play with the way it kind of feels. I'm not sure if I'm making any sense.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I love.
Chris Barker:
So a mixture between actual, like, physical pedals or just guitar rig and stuff.
Raphaella:
I think mostly in the box.
Chris Barker:
In the box, yeah.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
And, I mean, would you not prefer a prophet ten?
Raphaella:
I'm gonna stick with my prophet six.
Will Betts:
Fair play. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to upsell you off your firstborn, so I guess.
Raphaella:
That'S probably a losing battle.
Will Betts:
Fair enough.
Chris Barker:
We'll upsell some dreams soon, will get to press that button.
Raphaella:
And I also kind of, like, as a bit of a hack, because obviously there's lots of sort of effects within it, so then you can forego having to need to have any delays or any choruses or any vocals.
Chris Barker:
You'll have that stuff in logic, don't forget.
Raphaella:
Oh, yeah, that's true. That is true. That's a good point.
Will Betts:
So is there an audio input on the prophet six?
Raphaella:
As in to go into.
Will Betts:
So you could just use the delay and reverb on the prophet.
Raphaella:
Oh, no, sorry, I meant as in I don't. Wouldn't have to put it onto the actual.
Will Betts:
I see, I see, I see. Yeah.
Raphaella:
Got it.
Will Betts:
Cool.
Chris Barker:
Okay, item number four.
Raphaella:
Okay.
Chris Barker:
Closing in now.
Raphaella:
Getting stressed halfway through. Okay, so I'm going to go for a Steinway grand piano.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Solid choice.
Chris Barker:
Solid, popular choice.
Raphaella:
Yeah, I'm sure lots of people have said that, but you just can't go wrong. And I'm. Because I kind of started in the classical world. I feel like there's something that if you literally just have a Steinway grand and yourself, magic can still be made.
Will Betts:
That's the pull quote.
Raphaella:
But also, I kind of like the fact that I love Hans Zimmer as well, and I love the way he takes kind of, like very. If I say human made instruments, I mean, made from wood. Made from. Do you know what I mean? Like, actually made from materials that we have in the world.
Chris Barker:
Acoustic instruments.
Raphaella:
Acoustic instruments. That's the word, yeah.
Will Betts:
Well, like the flute that he had made for the dune two soundtrack, which was a contra based duduk.
Raphaella:
Oh, how cool is that?
Will Betts:
And it's just this sort of whispery, airy sound.
Raphaella:
Okay. I didn't know. I watched his. There was, like, this video on YouTube of him basically making the soundtrack to Interstellar. It was absolutely amazing. And he was kind of using string instruments, but, like, the further away in the film they got from earth, the more they started to use those very acoustic, kind of wooden, earthly made instruments in a weird way. So they would turn the bow upside down and kind of, you know, play the strings, but with the upside, like the upside of the bow, which I think is quite cool. So I think there's.
Chris Barker:
It's a great way to interpret. It's familiar, but.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Familiar, but other work, but also not. And then kind of, like, distorted. Yeah. So I feel like that's. I think if you've got a piano, there's really cool things you can do with it, you know?
Chris Barker:
Well, yeah, you've got a mic and a great setup as well for that, so, you know.
Raphaella:
Exactly.
Chris Barker:
Prepared piano. Kind of.
Raphaella:
Precisely. Indeed. We love to see it.
Chris Barker:
Any particular color on the Steinway? Go for it.
Raphaella:
Classic. Classic, yeah. Piano black classic, yeah.
Will Betts:
Any particular variety? Like, just the classic Steinway d that you get in every concert hall sort of thing or something like that?
Raphaella:
I would say. So you're testing my knowledge of Steinway grand pianos, but, yes, I think.
Chris Barker:
I think we're testing worlds.
Raphaella:
Isn't it?
Chris Barker:
All the.
Will Betts:
I believe there are others.
Chris Barker:
Other sideways are available.
Raphaella:
Other sideways are available, yeah. I was also trying to remember, if we just go back to guitar pedals, I was trying to remember the name of the pedal that I. A pedal that I use sometimes, which is Chase bliss audio, and it's mood. Chase bliss audio is brilliant. So, yeah, mood is really cool.
Chris Barker:
I don't know this.
Will Betts:
It's a micro granular sampler.
Raphaella:
Exactly.
Will Betts:
I have it.
Chris Barker:
It's so cool.
Raphaella:
It's so cool. Right, exactly. I was, like, trying to think, you know, when you use stuff, and I haven't. I haven't actually used it in a lot of time.
Chris Barker:
And this is a physical pedal or.
Will Betts:
It's a physical pedal.
Raphaella:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all of their pedals are really cool. And I also love. They've got this really cool way of sort of promoting them, which is really, like. They do really great videos. So, yeah, it's just fun.
Chris Barker:
Item number five.
Raphaella:
Okay, we're getting down to the wire here. I am aware that I haven't got any monitors, but I'm gonna make a radical decision and say that in my dream fictional studio, fantasy studio.
Will Betts:
Not fictional.
Raphaella:
So not fictional.
Will Betts:
I do apologize.
Raphaella:
Fantasy fantasy studio monitors would be unnecessary.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
They would be unnecessary because in this fantasy studio, you would feel the music.
Chris Barker:
Oh, wow. I thought you were gonna say, I would never finish any music.
Will Betts:
Say more.
Raphaella:
You would feel, because I feel like the last two items I really need. So I'm gonna fork the monitors.
Chris Barker:
So it's nonsense just to get out.
Raphaella:
Oh, it's complete rubbish.
Chris Barker:
Wow.
Will Betts:
This has been an incredible technological breakthrough.
Chris Barker:
I'm not aware of.
Raphaella:
We all have microchips in our brains and we can hear things.
Will Betts:
Oh, you're gonna neuralink it into your brain.
Raphaella:
Exactly.
Chris Barker:
So what's actually happening? What's happening is you're listening to this music out of the speakers of your laptop.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Raphaella:
No, but. Yes.
Chris Barker:
No, no.
Raphaella:
Yes, no. Yes. Yeah. It's just sad because I don't. Just monitors a very mean this in the nicest possible way. Like, the least interesting. When it comes to wanting to have.
Will Betts:
Gear, yes, it's a necessity, but a dull one.
Chris Barker:
We gave you three uninteresting items for free. This one you will have to suffer.
Raphaella:
Just difficult.
Chris Barker:
You don't need them, though, if you want to use your laptop speakers.
Raphaella:
I don't want to. It's just. Okay, do you know what? Let's do number five and let's decide it.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Okay, perfect.
Raphaella:
Okay, so number. Item. Number five would be outputs arcade. Is that loud?
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Isn't it? One thing. You think it's a bundle?
Raphaella:
Yes, it's allowed.
Chris Barker:
I don't keep up with bundle technology. I don't know how many bundles are going.
Will Betts:
You swore off bundles when we started this podcast.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, that was interesting.
Raphaella:
It's not a bundle. It isn't a bundle, though. It's one single.
Will Betts:
It is a subscription instrument.
Raphaella:
Indeed. Singular.
Chris Barker:
They should make all the instruments subscribable, like guitars and things.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Put me off doing anything ever.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. If you want to play guitar, it's going to cost you quarter of a million pounds over your life.
Will Betts:
Well, yeah, I mean, I think choosing music is probably that part of most people. Yeah, okay, fine.
Chris Barker:
Allowed.
Will Betts:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Tell us about it, why you love it.
Raphaella:
Okay. Because it's quite.
Chris Barker:
It's relatively recent, right? Like five. Probably five years. When I say relatively recent.
Raphaella:
Relatively. Yeah. I think it's just for me, I'm very much like vibe led. That sounds really like. I'm very much like, into the vibe.
Chris Barker:
Your studio's not in LA, right?
Raphaella:
Yeah, literally. I know, but I feel like there's. I kind of really like weird sounds and I'm not afraid of kind of creating. I will happily wait like an hour, even even more, until I have kind of like, even just like four bars of something that even if it might be weird, makes me feel something and it's exciting to write on. So I could literally just have.
Chris Barker:
And can that be non musical? It can be as in, like. It could be just like ear candy or percussive.
Raphaella:
Sometimes there will just be like a percussion, a percussive sound that just kind of. I'm like instantly I feel something or a really weird, interesting, weird sound that I can mess up. I love having something like a raw thing that I can then think, okay, I can do this, I can do that. I can completely alter it, change its identity. And so output, I think is so cool because sometimes I will literally just have a baseline and then I open up output and just see what happens and just see what feels cool.
Chris Barker:
Is that. Is. Am I wrong that this has lots of vocally kind of.
Raphaella:
Yeah, but not only vocally stuff. Sometimes it has really weird sounds or it has maybe just like a weird kind of like. But there's a lot of this instrument.
Chris Barker:
On modern pop music, right? Not just via over 500 million streams, but. No, but generally in modern pop there is.
Raphaella:
There is. Yeah, yeah, there's quite a lot. But I just kind of think it's really cool because there's just sometimes. So there's one track that I dit that's not out yet that I basically.
Chris Barker:
501 million streams.
Raphaella:
Think higher.
Chris Barker:
No, I mean on release day, 160.
Raphaella:
Million streams, 1 billion extra million streams.
Chris Barker:
On your new release.
Raphaella:
That's a way, huh?
Chris Barker:
A million streams on a new release.
Will Betts:
I want a few more than that.
Raphaella:
I want a few more yeah gunning for more so there's one song that I basically built. Instead of, like, building chords, I basically opened the output and I was kind of like this. I think it was like, it was one of the vocal ones, and I just basically built chords with it, and it was like, that was like the under. Like the underbelly of the chord. And I kind of just built it literally through sounds. And so I built chord through output, if that makes sense.
Chris Barker:
By layering.
Raphaella:
By layering. And I just feel like there's so much you can do with it that's really interesting. So it makes me approach writing and approaching building a track in a different way instead of just being like, okay, so I've got my keyboard now and I have a like. And I feel like as a piano player, it's very easy to sort of see chords linear. Yeah. To see. Cause, like, this way, if that makes sense horizontally. And so that's kind of one reason why I sometimes like using the push, because it makes you see it chords in a completely different.
Raphaella:
From a different angle, if that makes.
Chris Barker:
Sense, it's the same. When you pick. If you pick up a guitar, compared.
Raphaella:
To it kind of forces you to use different inversions of chords and stuff.
Chris Barker:
And jump to different notes, whereas.
Raphaella:
Yeah, exactly.
Chris Barker:
Something might seem like the wrong sort of muscle memory to go here.
Raphaella:
It's like, precisely.
Chris Barker:
Especially things like jumping octaves. I've always found that different. Like, it feels like. I don't know, it feels like I'm doing a big maneuver on a keyboard, an octave, whereas on a guitar, it's like, physically, it is a much bigger.
Will Betts:
Maneuver, isn't it, than a guitar? Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Especially when writing melodies and bass lines that kind of. It's different.
Raphaella:
It is different. It completely changes your approach to, like, how you would voice a chord or, you know, and so that's. I really love output for that. And then also just afterwards, for just, like, cool, like, little weird things that you can just. I like weird stuff. I feel like some of the best tracks that you listen and you're like, it has a personality and an identity. And from, like, the first 2nd, you're like, I know what that song is.
Chris Barker:
Well, it's like. It's a brave noise, isn't it?
Raphaella:
Bon Iver. I love Bon Iver, and I love his approach to production. It's just so exciting. James Blake found out he was, like, in the same uni as me. But, like, in the last year. So he was in his last year as I was in my first year, and I was like, God damn it, if only I'd known. But, yeah, I just. I.
Raphaella:
I think you can hear someone's brain, if that makes sense, in their approach to production sometimes. And I think it's a really interesting, out of the box way of thinking.
Will Betts:
And so within the structure of the track, you're talking about sort of creating those unusual auditory moments, is that something you want to try and hook people with as quickly as possible when they're listening to it?
Raphaella:
Yes, I think so.
Chris Barker:
That's critical in pop, isn't it? Like, within the first few seconds. I know it's that record.
Raphaella:
And also, I kind of feel like those things. I don't get so inspired by just straight chords, if that makes sense. I like to kind of have. If within, like, the first bar or first four bars, there's something quite interesting that even if it's like a. Even if it's a texture.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Or like, foley type elements.
Raphaella:
Yeah, exactly. That then can kind of create an emotion or make me feel something, then I'm much more inspired to write on it. And also, I kind of. I really like creating space as well. So sometimes, like, if there's kind of rhythmic space in something, then it kind of allows me to think through it, as opposed to, like, on top of something. So if chords, if chords are like this, then I'm thinking on top of it. But if I'm creating rhythmic space, then I can think through it, if that makes sense.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Yeah. Snaky melodies.
Raphaella:
Snakey melodies. Precisely. Yeah. Then I'm more likely to weave something through it. Yeah. And then those elements are feeling like they're kind of intertwined, and that's just as much a part of the top line as the top line is, if that makes sense, and vice versa, the top line's just as much part of the track as the top line.
Will Betts:
And just thinking about it from the perspective of being. Being a vocalist who also plays violin, how important is it to think about parts being melodic in themselves?
Raphaella:
Really important.
Will Betts:
Tell us about that.
Raphaella:
Yeah. So I kind of feel, and I think, interestingly, my background in orchestras has helped that, because I kind of. You get to understand each section, even within each violin section, you have violin one, violin two, and you have kind of. Each section is there to serve the other, but each section has its own melody as well. It's not just apart from God, poor violas. They're often just the alto of the entire orchestra, but even altos, there's still melody in there. Still melody. And so I think, for me, I always try to do that in production, that there's a melody throughout, and I feel like some of the best music does that.
Raphaella:
Like, if you think of Michael Jackson or if you think of Coldplay, for example, people don't. Like, maybe some people are team coldplay. Some people team up, but I feel like they're production.
Chris Barker:
I think most people are team coldplay.
Raphaella:
I love Coldplay.
Chris Barker:
Them as a thing, and now everybody's.
Raphaella:
Is it just.
Chris Barker:
I think it was just a thing where.
Raphaella:
It's because I love Coldplay. I think they're amazing, and, like, every single one of their tracks has a melody within the instrumentation, and I think it's like.
Chris Barker:
I love most dance artists as well, kind of test along to coldplay. It's the anthemic festival.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
You know?
Raphaella:
Yeah. I think it's important because then often you'll get inspired through a melody, and, like, if there's a top line, even, like, in a piano line, if there's a beautiful melody, then that will inspire the melody for the vocal. So, yeah, it's important to me. Yeah, yeah, I always try to do that. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Love it.
Raphaella:
Yeah. And in bass lines, too, we get.
Chris Barker:
To the tense last item.
Raphaella:
Okay.
Will Betts:
What'S it between.
Raphaella:
Okay, I'll tell you what.
Chris Barker:
It's between some monitors and.
Raphaella:
Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, yeah. It's basically between ns ten s, because they never lie to you.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
And it hurts while you're using them, but you're always grateful you did.
Chris Barker:
Or, like an audio gym.
Raphaella:
Yeah. Yeah, basically. Yeah. That's so true. That's very good point. Or, like, getting ready without makeup, and then it's, like, the final thing you put on, and you're like, oh, yeah, the outfit looks great, as you would both know. Yes. Or sound toys.
Raphaella:
Echo boy.
Chris Barker:
Oh.
Raphaella:
I mean, because I feel like I haven't.
Chris Barker:
I don't know how that's a hard decision, hearing all of your music forever through laptop speakers.
Raphaella:
Okay, fine.
Chris Barker:
Or an echo plugin. I mean, you've got echo plugins and logic. Right.
Raphaella:
Because you can.
Chris Barker:
I'm not saying it's the same. I know it's not the same.
Raphaella:
Okay. And also the other thing.
Chris Barker:
But you're saying that the speakers in.
Raphaella:
The laptop are the same as, in my defense, sound toys I use every single day. And.
Chris Barker:
And your monitors, I'm sure.
Raphaella:
But I need that. They needed to be at least a shout out to sound toys because I use them every single day. And it's the one kind of software, plugin software that I use that I would not be able to live without. If I didn't have it on my laptop, my music would not be the same.
Chris Barker:
Wow.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Raphaella:
And so it's difficult. That's where fabfilter, too, you know, it's like you either go with pragmatism or you go with the heart, because how can you live without Fabfilter's eq?
Will Betts:
He uses a logging.
Raphaella:
How can you live with.
Chris Barker:
How can you live without monitors, though? Music would be so not fun.
Will Betts:
We have had people who have chosen not to have monitors before, and I think they just found a pair of earbuds in a drawer somewhere. I think I know which direction you're going, Rafaella.
Chris Barker:
I think we know the earbuds thing does, like, and a lot of people do end up listening to music on earbuds anyway, so. Yeah.
Raphaella:
So the thing is, if this is.
Chris Barker:
True fantasy, you must be upselling dreams with me here.
Will Betts:
Well, look, okay, I've softened on this. I feel sound toys.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Tell us about what you're using echo boy for, specifically. Why can't you be without it?
Raphaella:
Because I think that there's, like. I always like to call it, like, sauce that you can't. Oh, gosh. That was the chair.
Will Betts:
Chris was just singing there.
Chris Barker:
It's like being 13 all over again. It's happening. Can you imagine another octave now? In my forties. When will it end?
Raphaella:
So I kind of feel like it's just. It's such an all rounder, and I like to add sauce. There's, like, to add kind of a feeling, and I. Obviously, there's a time and a place for. For things to be dry, but if I was to never be able to have sound toys source on my records forever and ever and ever, I would be sad. And I feel like there's a lot of stuff you can do with it that's really creative, and you can kind of create leaps and leaps and leaps and leaps and leaps of delays and delays and delays and delays that you can kind of then create and using.
Chris Barker:
This on vocals, on anything, on everything, literally everything.
Raphaella:
So I like to use it on. And I'm thinking, because I know. I'm quite aware I don't have any kind of drum slash percussion plug in here.
Chris Barker:
Got logic again, though, so.
Raphaella:
Yeah, that is true. So I was thinking it could be cool if I'm kind of, like, recording percussive sounds through the mic.
Chris Barker:
And I just think you've got your piano as well.
Raphaella:
Well, that's true. That's a good point. Yeah. So that's what I was thinking. I mean, obviously, we're going for more like an analogue vibe here. It's not. We're not going to be necessarily creating dance records. I just think that there's, like.
Raphaella:
I am just obsessed with its spice and how I could I just add it to a lot, to basically everything. Vocals, it can create just, like, really nice atmosphere. I think atmosphere is, like, really important to me.
Chris Barker:
And it's specifically the echo boy. Right.
Will Betts:
So tell us about crystallizer or crystallizer. You gotta have one, though. Yeah, you gotta choose one.
Raphaella:
Echo boy.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Raphaella:
But crystallizer for Crystallizer is really creative. So that's kind of for specifically, like, backing vocals or, like. So what I like to do is, I often don't do. I know the traditional thing is.
Chris Barker:
What's the nature of crystallizer?
Raphaella:
It's kind of.
Will Betts:
Oh, it's like a pitch shift.
Raphaella:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Raphaella:
And that's also with delay. It's quite delayed. You've got delays in there and kind.
Chris Barker:
Of like a pitch delay then.
Raphaella:
Yeah, sort of thing, yeah. So, like, what I like to do is often. I know, like, the formulaic thing is to have two or four doubles with backing vocals, but what I often quite like to do is just to have one and to put it through a number of different things. Like, I know this is not my list, but just shout out to microshift. I kind of like to widen stuff. So instead of having, like, two either side stereo, like left, right, or four, I like to have one that I kind of process and make sound really interesting and then it can weave through things. I just think that the same. What it does overall is more interesting to me than having a more kind of formulaic left and right backing vocal.
Raphaella:
And I liked it. I grew up listening to Brandy and the way she kind of weaves her vocal, her backing vocals is more of, like. I like to call them harmony ad libs. So if you've got, like, a lead line and then you've got even just like, let's say a third underneath or a third above, I like to then find one of the thirds I've not hit and kind of weave the melody through. And if you have just one line doing that, but you widen it, then it just creates a really cool feel. I did it on MK's 02:00 a.m. So you have the pre chorus, it's eleven. And then I go, so.
Raphaella:
And you kind of. And you kind of. I just find stuff through it and I just think it's a really cooler way to process that kind of backing vocal than if I was to do it in a traditional. Love is love enough, which is fine, but not as interesting as one, as weaving through, if that makes sense. And then having one that you then.
Chris Barker:
Process, and it was immediately more interesting, even when you just did it there.
Will Betts:
Yes.
Raphaella:
And then it kind of has more of a character as well. It's quite like it's more brave in a way. It's like, I am what I am.
Chris Barker:
And strangely, it sounds sort of more natural, even though it's, like, against the rules. It just sounds like somebody's singing rather than thinking of where to hit.
Raphaella:
Yeah. So I kind of, like, instinctively know where the harmony is. I'm weird. I just sing harmonies. I don't necessarily think about it. And then it's interesting to find those passing notes. And I did, like, obviously, growing up, do bark chorales and stuff, and there's all the counterpoint, and there's lots of different passing notes, and you kind of, like. So maybe that's where it's come from, but I just like to do that, and you could just create moments through things, so.
Raphaella:
Yeah, and I think echo boy really helps to create that vibe.
Will Betts:
Are there specific settings you're using for, like, do you prefer to use a number of different delays? For instance, are you using, like, sixteenths, eighths? Like, what?
Raphaella:
Yeah, so I kind of go to. It really depends. I just literally follow my ears, so it'll be every single time.
Will Betts:
But do you use multiple?
Raphaella:
Yes, I use multiple, and I like to pan them, so sometimes, like, one will be, like, an 8th will be panned left, 16 pound. Right. Ever so slightly. So you're getting kind of like a nice little stereo adjusting width. Width.
Will Betts:
Yeah, yeah.
Raphaella:
Love that.
Chris Barker:
Without it being just, like, a hard.
Raphaella:
And I always like to eq them, too. Get rid of the lows, cut that out. So then there's space, so, yeah, but it all depends. I just literally follow my ears, and that's, like, why I find sound toys so fun, because I never really. I know, like, roughly. I know what I want to hear, but it all depends on what that backing vocal is doing or what that vocal, specifically in that track, is doing. And I just literally follow my ears and experiment.
Chris Barker:
I think at this point, it's time for will to take us on the journey of the studio you've just built. So have a listen back here with no monitors. Yep. While we're listening back to this, have a think about what you want as your luxury item, which is not a piece of gear.
Raphaella:
Okay, so is this. Okay, fine.
Chris Barker:
All right. Okay, so have a listen. Right. What have we got, will? What have we built?
Will Betts:
We're in a studio in a free esfahan, surrounded by nature, with a persian carpet from Stockbridge and a samovar coffee machine. Fairy lights, indoor plants.
Raphaella:
Indeed.
Will Betts:
Your free items, you've chosen a MacBook Pro m three max, a UA Apollo twin and logic pro x. Then for your six items, you have chosen to steal egg whites. Neumann U 47.
Raphaella:
Indeed. Sorry.
Will Betts:
You have a tube tech cl one, B compressor, a sequential profit, six, a Steinway D grand piano output arcade. And for your final item, a plugin, you have chosen soundtoys. Echo boy. Can you make music with that?
Raphaella:
Yes, I can love it.
Will Betts:
Can you do everything you want to do with it?
Raphaella:
No, not everything.
Will Betts:
Okay, what are you kind of missing? What do you feel like, the bits you wish you could have in there?
Chris Barker:
Some speakers.
Raphaella:
Okay, yeah, some speakers. And then I guess, like, I really would basically all of sound, toys, everything. They make fab filter.
Chris Barker:
So you would have had the bundle?
Raphaella:
I would have had the bundle. I would have had the bundle. I would have had cork as well. Cork bundle. So you've got.
Chris Barker:
You can see why we don't do bundles, right? Yeah, it does make it challenging.
Raphaella:
It's just really sad.
Chris Barker:
We should have a special Christmas bundle edition where you can only pick bundles.
Will Betts:
Only bundles, yeah.
Raphaella:
And then also, actually, I have to say, like, fabfilters pro r is really great. Their reverb is an unsung hero, in my opinion. I really like. I love their reverb and also, like, a really good. I love, like, auto tune a lot. I know you've got the built in logic one, but Antares is the original ten out of ten. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Will Betts:
Well, then that's just a melodyne.
Raphaella:
Anything else? Anything else to add? The battery?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, and let's finish this up with the luxury item, though, which isn't a piece of gear.
Raphaella:
Can it be a luxury built in thing?
Chris Barker:
Maybe.
Will Betts:
What are you thinking?
Raphaella:
I'm thinking a built in cafe that sells persian food all through the day. Oh, yeah.
Chris Barker:
That's a great idea for our audience. What, we having breakfast, lunch and dinner from this persian cabbage, of course.
Raphaella:
Yeah, of course.
Chris Barker:
No, but tell us the dishes.
Raphaella:
Okay, fine. Oh, sorry. Okay, so basically.
Will Betts:
Yes, yes, all of it.
Raphaella:
All of it, please.
Chris Barker:
All three minutes. Okay, so we'll take it.
Raphaella:
So for breakfast, obviously, persian chai, my favorite is called chai nabot, which is like this crystallized sugar that you put into it. Not very healthy, but we love it. It's like, it's basically a Persian's cure to every single ill, whether you have a broken heart, a broken leg, a cold, literally anything. It's like choy naboth would fix it, basically raising your blood sugar levels and you feel good.
Chris Barker:
That's.
Raphaella:
Long story. And then Tochme gorge, which is like, my bubba makes the best. It's like scrambled eggs, but with, like, tomato, with persian tomato puree kind of mixed in. So you cook down your tomatoes first, and then you scramble your eggs into it. And it's just scrambled eggs on steroids. It's amazing.
Chris Barker:
Nice.
Raphaella:
For breakfast, lunch, I think we're going to go for kubide kabob, which is like a minced meat minced lamb. And it's a kabob. So you get ten out of ten with buttery saffron rice for lunch. And then for dinner, if we're not exhausted and in a food coma, probably ghee mer badimjun, which is like a traditional persian stew made with, like, lentils, tomato, turmeric, saffron and lamb.
Chris Barker:
Perfect. I'm starving.
Will Betts:
Yeah, absolutely famished.
Chris Barker:
Well, thank you so much, Rafaella, for coming on the podcast and building your dream forever studio with us. We've had a great time. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Raphaella:
Thank you.
Will Betts:
Well, that's been my forever studio with Rafaella. Thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll catch you next time for another adventure into studio foreverdom. Bye.