Sami Tauber, the human counterpart to a super-sentient AI avatar called VNCCII, heads off-world this episode and completely reinvents society for her fantasy forever studio. Discover how she’s embraced spacial audio, which attainable (and not-so-attainable) soft synth she couldn’t live without, and where she sees the role of AI in the studio.
Sami Tauber, the human counterpart to a super-sentient AI avatar called VNCCII, heads off-world this episode and completely reinvents society for her fantasy forever studio. Discover how she’s embraced spacial audio, which attainable (and not-so-attainable) soft synth she couldn’t live without, and where she sees the role of AI in the studio.
Season 5 is sponsored by Audient: audient.com
STUFF WE TALK ABOUT (SPOILERS AHEAD!)
https://www.richardiii.ca/sir-james-tyrell-hero-or-villain/
https://www.uaudio.com/audio-interfaces/apollo-x8p.html
https://pmc-speakers.com/dolby-atmos-studio
https://www.genelec.com/-/genelec-dolby-atmos-immersive-audio-experience-at-telefunken
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gartner_hype_cycle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tron:_Legacy_(soundtrack)
https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Telefunken-ELA-M-251-E-Tube-Microphone/art-REC0010586-000
https://en-de.neumann.com/tlm-103
https://www.sequential.com/product/prophet-6/
https://gearspace.com/board/low-end-theory/419616-quot-pads-quot-used-michael-jacksons-thriller.html
https://reverb.com/uk/p/roland-jupiter-8
Chris Barker
I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts
And I'm Will Betts and this is the music tech my forever studio podcast brought to you in partnership with audience and we're coming to you today from TYX in Tileyard Studios in London.
Chris Barker
That's right. And in this podcast, we speak with musicians, DJs producers, engineers, and we talk about their fantasy forever studio.
Will Betts
That's right, the fantasy studio that our guests come up with today they will have to live with for eternity. But we do have some rules, don't we? Chris?
Chris Barker
Yes, rules. We love the rules. First of all, our guest gets choose a computer, DAW and an audience face, they get those free, then we have six other items that they can choose for the studio plus one luxury item.
Will Betts
That's right. But there's one more row isn't there, Chris? Yes.
Chris Barker
No bundle. That's correct. A package of software or hardware sold as a bundle is not allowed.
Will Betts
Correct. This time we are joined by a musician, producer, entrepreneur, and the human counterpart to a virtual avatar.
Chris Barker
Indeed, our guests might look human, but she pilots a musical Alter Ego, a super sentient AI. And she uses a motion capture suit for that's pretty interesting
Will Betts
is interesting. She has been pushing boundaries. She's hotly tipped. She's got her own YouTube series where she talks about futurism. She's been in music videos made in Unreal Engine. She's even made a music production tutorial for music tech, all from her spaceship studio.
Chris Barker
Yeah, that's right spaceship studio. We love that. This is my forever studio with Sammy Talbert. Okay, then he Hello.
VNCCII
Hi. Welcome.
Thank you for having me.
Chris Barker
Thank you for putting up with that very long winded intro. That was we had a lot to talk about with you. You're doing some crazy things. We live in it. So I think you know the podcasts a little bit. So you know, the the premise. So before we get on to, you know, I mean it immediately spaceship studio. It feels like we've hit forever studio areas already in a island. But let's talk about how this all came about. And the alter ego and why and how I mean, was this always a plan or you know, where you're going to be an artist as a human first.
VNCCII
Thank you so much. I mean, like, it's crazy, right? It's like, it's not new, like you have the gorillas, right. And they've had virtual avatars, that I just love the idea of storytelling. And I was like, how do I represent all the stories I want to tell in my music, from a branding perspective, and from a storytelling perspective. So like in 2018, I created the character Vinci and she's like, by like 3d standards, a six foot tall cyborg warrior avatar from the future. And I was like, thinking about concepts such as artificial intelligence, and like, what does that mean for humanity? And obviously, we fast forward to now and we're seeing like, a no chat GBT. And like mid journey and all of that, and like, how does that impact creatives? But I was like, reverse psychology? What would that look like if it was like a human piloting it not like an AI even though it's a fictional, super sentient, intelligent AI character. And then that concept I just really gravitated towards and became like a creative muse for me. And so all the content that I'm making the music I'm kind of like channeling this persona of this fictional being called Vinci.
Chris Barker
So Vinci the music for Vinci is essentially because of Vinci, not a byproduct of the music search, you know, I mean, like, yeah, so it's that way round. Yeah. Okay. No, that's very cool. So interesting. Yeah. So is, is there a possibility that you know, there'll be future other characters with different musical genres and different way to output your creativity is quite good for as an artist because you don't you don't get pigeonholed as such you can write?
VNCCII
Yeah, well, it's funny you say that, like I recently wrote a novel based on Vinci. And there's like a cast of characters. I know this music podcast, but it's all interconnected, because the novel then informs the music and forms a bit like a musical. So like, the music that I do on stage, it kind of feels like a pop dance. Metaverse musical stage show, so when they read the novel, and they, they learn about the other characters, they're like, oh, it all makes sense and join all the dots together.
Chris Barker
Like you know, Lord of the Rings of
Will Betts
the fact that's where you went to just like all the rings.
Chris Barker
You create like a whole world. Yes. Yeah. Full of character and full of things. Stories a universe. metaverse.
Will Betts
It's a Yeah, Vinci. You met method.
Chris Barker
I've never felt so old. It's happened Today's the day. Okay, everybody can witness this right now. This is the day when I realized took longer than most people I think to realize but this has happened now.
VNCCII
Ages of mindset ages in mind. So I thought today I would agree with you.
Chris Barker
My daughter's especially well Chris is definitely not a mindset. You're gonna die soon. Anyway, okay.
Will Betts
So you've wiped so this the VINCI character, you decided instead of it being a one to one, four The Sami that it was going to be this this different outlet for your creativity. But what about the studio? Yes, you have this incredible spaceship studio that you present from? Yeah, you've got to sort of boiler and style DJ area, you've got this incredible setup with like the, like Raven, like touch screens and all this kind of business. Yep. How much of that? Do you see sort of? In terms of the vibes? It's a spaceship? How much of that would you take as Sammy? In your forever studio?
VNCCII
That's a great question.
Chris Barker
I can lead that into and then tell us about where you would locate this forever studio?
VNCCII
Oh, that's a beautiful question. It's almost like yeah, that was my first attempt at like, going, what would a virtual studio look like for the VINCI character and because she's like this, intergalactic being from the future and superhero. And I was like, of course, it's like a spaceship style studio. And I just love the color palette, very futuristic. And as you said, the Raven touch screen. But there's so many things like ever since I've written the novel I've worked out. She's like, such a multi dimensional being. And I've learned so much more about this character that I, if I could bring Sammy into it, it would actually evolve from that virtual studio, which has an Unreal Engine. And obviously, that's an a game engine, I can actually experience it. So I'm wearing a mocap suit and I might moving a few things and she's moving the knobs but I'm not. There's no tangible touch. And so that's why I love this podcast because it's like, in the real life like semi Tauber as Vinci let's say you either physically, I would put this forever studio based on the novel, but I'd physically go in on an exoplanet. 500 years into the future we go 500 years into the future typing. for it. There's an advanced galactic society. And in the novel without giving too much away, she does visit this society 500 years in the future and an exoplanet so let's like all brainstorm where would we be 500 years in the future still arguing
Chris Barker
about analog versus digital?
Will Betts
The idea that we still have corporeal forms, I think, we gotta
Chris Barker
Yeah, we won't, but they'll still be people going, you got to use tape. It's just like,
Will Betts
neuro link fill brains in jars. It's been like,
Chris Barker
the sound of this character for five years in the future.
VNCCII
Yeah, well, I imagined everything's like sentient as well. Like, I don't know how I'd feel though. If like, all my instruments, were talking to me, you know, like, if they had like, you know, their own intelligent brain. Sure, a lot of rock stars
Chris Barker
in the 70s thought that
Will Betts
I like that idea of like, you know, when people go into smoky old studios, like If These Walls Could Talk and just like, please don't don't need any more.
VNCCII
I've already got enough voices. Don't Don't interrupt my creative process. But yeah, like, it's thoughts like that. When you with the with this podcast, I was like, well, like advanced technology, but with what we already love today, you know, as well as like nature, and just tapping into all of that. What can sound do like healing as well, I could just picture this space, like a very zen healing vibe. Like think like James Terrell. Okay, so like with that lighting, you know,
Chris Barker
we're on but we're on a planet, but essentially, it's Earth, like, ish as in like, this nature. So when you're locating this, it's not like a spaceship or flowing. It's gonna be on a ground of sorts. Right? So talk us through, like, what's that dream look like that? Yeah, that space without going into the game. Just like Yeah,
VNCCII
I mean, I just picture every, like, everyone's this worked out, you know, like, free energy and just like all those things that we just can't work out today as a human species. Like this is like my pure fiction imagination. And like, yeah, everything's like that you want to be sentient as sentient. So everything is interconnected in this beautiful system of oneness. I don't know and like, I don't know everything that's like sacred geometry is like connected to sound and soul symbiosis symbiotic. And so anything that you make, like has a positive effect on like, how your experience and then everything's like super immersive as well. And so it's
Chris Barker
impossible to make negative things.
VNCCII
I just think it's like a place of optimism but pragmatic optimism
Chris Barker
definitely won't be welcomed.
Will Betts
Like MIDI 2.0 is everything's MIDI 2.0 enabled that's happened yes. All everything talks to everything. You know,
Chris Barker
USPS that go in the wrong
Will Betts
there's no there's Yeah, okay. Everything's USBC Yeah, we're all better. We're done.
VNCCII
Wow. So in the future.
Will Betts
Not but in all seriousness, I mean, this is an extreme vision of the future. What what bothers you right now about being in the studio? Because I know for me like, cables, do my head in. Oh, yeah. can't handle it. If I've got to plug something in. I'm always rolling over a cable or like my headphones are coming off or something like that. So what are those peeves for you right now when you're trying to solve Yeah,
VNCCII
I mean, for To me, like my studio in Australia, like it was very oddly shaped and so the reflections and reverberations and so like I had having to compensate for too much low end. And so very happy with the speakers. I had the genetic genetics at four Oh, Sam's because and they had the GLM room correction software, you know, for any anomalies. And so like, Thank goodness for that, because, like, my mix mix is exponentially improved with those speakers. Yeah. So yeah, pet peeves are like, you know, if you don't have a properly treated room, like you know, as a,
Chris Barker
as a pet peeve that's solved by technology, which is what you're trying to do five years from now, essentially.
Will Betts
So perfect acoustics, obviously, in your studio. Yeah,
VNCCII
I just like I don't picture it being like, you know, like, like a dead like sound studio like publicly traded, like, I picture it having like a real vibe and nature as well. But like, it's just everything is so interconnected as a system like imagine where AI would be 500 years in the future, it's like, it's going to compensate for anything for you. Everything's like smart.
Chris Barker
So how, once you're at that point, which is a kind of a hot topic right now. But in real terms is like, Where does Where does human input still become important at that point? You know, once you get to that point, like is, is there even any point?
VNCCII
Right? I mean, like, because everything that's happening like today with like, the explosion of AI, like mid journey, and oh, my goodness chat, GBT. I feel like in this society, it's all about, well, human, or whatever being you are, and your experience and having a positive outcome experience. So whatever that intelligence system is, it's working with you. And it's not working against you, but it's not taking away from your experience, and it's encouraging you to be your most creative self. So it's a very positive outlook.
Chris Barker
Does that not sound to me? Yeah, it's definitely but it sounds like a bundle. No, I was gonna say, it sounds like the AI is dumbing itself down for us humans will help you being I mean, we could just do all of this, but we'll just you know, you do your drawings, any painting. And AI is looking after us? Like we're just a primary school.
VNCCII
Right? Like, like five year old kids.
Chris Barker
Do you music? Just stop killing each other and bombing, you know, do paintings, which is a positive thing.
VNCCII
I just like the concept of a private personal assistant. PDA, you know, it's like, it's like, it's your data. It's private. You own it sovereign. But like it just it's there to assist. You know what I mean? Like it's not there to create for you.
Will Betts
It's more Jarvis than Google. And we say
Chris Barker
I want Jeeves. You want James
Will Betts
back? He's not coming back, Chris. Breakfast today
Chris Barker
is the day okay, well, we've got we're so we're in space finally on an exoplanet 5g
Will Betts
specific exoplanet and your particular name it outside?
VNCCII
I can't you have to read the novel.
Will Betts
terrain features. What's what else is around the studio?
Chris Barker
What's the weather? Like? I'm British. I need to know that.
VNCCII
Yeah. Well, I mean. Yeah, I mean, like, it's think Willy Wonka, like in this universe, lakes. And well, there's no chocolate lakes. No. Like, just like, imagine everything is like healing and regenerative at one with nature and technology. So it's like, but it's like, super, you know, so it's like, you know, it's like a glorified theme park. Okay. Zero G, things like that. Nature's there. You know, it's just a very advanced society that switched on that is like, my, my, my, my vision of a prototype of a happy society. And I thought we could get into this. What does happiness mean? Yeah. How do you constitute happiness? What, what does that mean? But it's a value proposition. And anyway, so Vinci visits this place. And so I thought, Well, to answer your question, this could be a cool place to put us. Yeah, I wouldn't mind loving it there.
Chris Barker
So um, yeah, let's, let's, well, feels like the next three are gonna be so
Will Betts
it's just a step back 500 years in the future, so maybe you're still gonna need
Chris Barker
either a Mac or PC and audio interface. And a DA W Okay, so, just so we're clear. Yeah, doesn't matter what the AI is what planet we're on, you're gonna need an audio interface. Yeah, I'm
VNCCII
gonna take it from 2023 Like I have no choice like yeah, I'm afraid so it's like stop trying. I'm just gonna teleport there now with this gear.
Will Betts
Exactly. Yeah, it's time travel episode.
VNCCII
Yeah, yeah. So to answer that Yeah, I mean, I love Okay, so PCs for Unreal Engine but for music Mac all the way.
Chris Barker
So which one are you choosing you have to choose one you can only well you could you can pick another one but it will come out your six items later on if you want a PC as well or a Mac as well.
VNCCII
I might just like sneakily take the PC because it's not under the music for like the Unreal Engine stuff that I do but because this is used at home is that GT.
Will Betts
You uneasy about that. I
VNCCII
know just because the PC have really good GPUs for visual stuff. Anyway, we're here for music Mac because that's what I'm used to and I just Love it. Yeah.
Will Betts
I mean, you could just take the biggest most SPECT out Intel Mac that there's still made and then you could still run Windows on it. Like when no one's looking. Yeah,
VNCCII
I was just won't tell anyone. Yeah. Yeah,
Will Betts
I'm glad you haven't told us about that. Yeah. Okay, awesome.
Chris Barker
And what's it what do I using on the Ableton?
VNCCII
Yeah, Ableton go? Yeah, I've been producing for how long? I don't know. But like, it feels like 10 years, but I don't know. But yeah, always been on it. But have
Chris Barker
you been tempted by the bit wig?
VNCCII
No, no, I'm okay. Because I just haven't actually have tried Pro Tools. But it just didn't like gel with my sort of style because I do electronic music and I love the Session View. And obviously, I use the Porsche a lot. It's like the brainchild of Ableton, yeah, flexibility. I love the max programming aspect of it. So you know, I'm just hooked on Ableton. So and I believe it will still be around 500 years in the future. That is a bold statement. Yeah, Ableton is listening. I hope that makes them happy.
Chris Barker
Cubase is still here. What's that? 37 years, nearly 500. Feels like five was a lot of time, you know, but it's a well on their way.
Will Betts
45? Yeah. Incredible. How about audio interfaces, then?
VNCCII
Well, what I'm used to and what I love is the polar UID mark to the twin. Yeah, I know. We can't do bundles, but it does come with all the plugins
Chris Barker
and all the plugins, but yeah, so yeah, well, you can get plugged, you're gonna get for the twin. You're not going to you're not going to two.
VNCCII
I was waiting for that. I just really wanted to hear that. Yeah, I'll be honest with you. I mean, what would what would you recommend? Well, it
Will Betts
depends whether you have any microphones you're gonna
VNCCII
Yeah, I mean, I use my voice mainly. So
Will Betts
depending on what else you've got, you might want to have one preamps preamps. top one, the XA p is the top. Okay, people select
Chris Barker
this so much well knows all the model numbers.
Will Betts
Do have a model number.
VNCCII
I do love good mic. preamps. I've been using all the virtual ones. But if I could afford it, I would get like a hardware preamp.
Chris Barker
What do they? Well, you can sign up so we haven't got we'll get to item number one from that list soon. But yeah, so x AP. The preamp models do they come as part of that?
Will Betts
It varies. It depends when you buy it. Okay. Yeah. So you might
Chris Barker
what am I? So I'll say we're buying it. 500 years from now in the future. Yeah, it's all bundled. Yeah.
Will Betts
So so nice.
Chris Barker
Right. Item number one then we get it. So this is what you've got so far. You've you've got your location. You've got your Apple Mac Pro. You've got the X AP and Ableton. 11 live suite. So yeah, exactly. I love live suite. Yeah. So item number one. What's it going to be? Hmm.
VNCCII
I don't know if this is I can say this, but like the Dolby Atmos system?
Will Betts
Oh, well, I think we've allowed it before. Okay. I think really early on. Somebody had it and we didn't. We didn't hit the bear horn. And now
Chris Barker
it's canon. It's like one of those judgments, isn't it? Like once the judges decide on Yeah, it's a bundle. But that's certainly where to have it. Right. So it's not a bundle? Okay. Yeah.
Will Betts
So yeah. What kind of Atmos system and why Atmos.
VNCCII
Okay, the big one is the why Atmos obviously I love Dolby. And if I Yeah, I've heard it before. It sounds incredible. Why Atmos because I make content for the game engine. And so everything I think about is immersive environments. And so if this was in this year, 500 years in the future, like, I could picture a really badass, like, you know, surround sound system, you know, that special audio, and, you know, mixing that and moving the different sounds around and you know, in real time, like also seeing the render in the game engine in Unreal. And so any sounds that I do, I can pitch a Vinci in a virtual environment, and it would feel very immersive. And then I can package it as a VR project or something.
Chris Barker
And how standard I mean, I've been to many commercial studios recently well for for quite a few years, like but is this becoming like the standard in commercial studios everywhere? Now? A lot of people I mean, there's a lot of because you can down mix the stereo really easily on it as well. So
Will Betts
funnily enough, there was actually a thing I was reading the other day where a lot of engineers who have to mix for specialty, so presumably, you're mixing for spatial as well when you Yeah, yeah. What do you what are you checking on because I know a lot of people are using my air pods Max. Like a reference.
VNCCII
Yeah, well, I've been mixing for stereo but like I've you know, I've worked with an engineer. He's great code. Luca pret Alessi from Studio DMO. They've got the Lucas awesome shout out Luca. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker
The podcast Luca as well. I've emailed you about it.
VNCCII
Yeah, but it's great because like, you know, I get my mixes I'd say like, like 95% and like, you know, he's got great sound system and rooms and yeah, he's great. So that's that
Chris Barker
Vegas room. Yes. Yes. So good.
Will Betts
So you Do you want the biggest and best Dolby Atmos system you can possibly have?
VNCCII
I mean, I'll tell you what, what I can
Chris Barker
sell dreams while I'm working on it and working to
VNCCII
thank you. I just feel like it's more, it's just about that simulating immersion, you know, and like, Just hearing that in that room and knowing it's going to be an experience, you know, whether it's a theme park or a physical venue or a virtual venue. Like that is where I'm going I believe as an artist, you know, so as soon as like special audio was became a real thing. You know, in today's age, I was like, yes. Because like, it just works really well with this multimedia. Yeah. Project.
Chris Barker
Do you want to pick a brand? At least you know, you miss Genelec feel right to you, or do you
VNCCII
want to? Okay, it does, because that's what I'm familiar with. And that's what I've
Chris Barker
been mixing. So it would make sense to have Yes, a Dolby Atmos.
VNCCII
Yeah, exactly. It's just jackhammer. So there we go. That's just how it's placed in the room so I can have that immersive experience. Yeah.
Will Betts
And so this is something that I wondered about when all the apple spatial music stuff happened, things getting presented in a way where you have certain elements being head tracking and some elements not? How do you deal with that? When you're thinking about the character in in the metaverse? Do you deal with all of that stuff?
VNCCII
Testing? Lots of r&d. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because like, it's new territory. And so like, you don't know until you try. And so I've always approached this Vinci project with very DIY, because I've you know, self learned producer, yeah, self learned, Unreal Engine, motion capture. So, you know, it's like, every day is a new day of learning. For me.
Chris Barker
I guess it's not strictly about replicating what may or may not happen with acoustics or audio or art in the real world. It's about breaking that right? A little bit. I think it's a
VNCCII
bit of both because I feel like people want to have that experience, like, you know, that feels like realistic, but at the same time, the beauty about all of this is that you can break beyond notions of reality. Yeah. Yeah. So that's exactly where I believe the VINCI project sitting, you know, and so I just like the concept of the fabric of the universe, and being able to, you know, meld different materials and sounds together, and it just be something that you've never heard or experienced before. And then maybe just maybe it's inspired someone to like, make it in reality. Yeah. Like, I know, this woman and she's like a 3d artists and she, she made a car, like a feminine future car, and they're like, let's manufacture that. So I'd love to see that for music, you know, someone, like create things in virtual environments, and they've like, let's make this physically.
Chris Barker
Yeah, I mean, it's mad actually, in music, how old something still, like, I mean, I was joking about the analog digital thing. 500 years, but like, you know, we still, there's still guitarists that refuse to like, you know, just the just the purity of the instrument, same as piano plays, and that it's like, there's
Will Betts
that many people still like that. I feel like that was I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Have you come across any of these people? Send me any of these Luddites?
VNCCII
Oh, no, but I'm like, I like old school stuff as well. So it's like, it's super weird. Like, you know, like, retro future. So I mean, but yeah, I do see that. But like, that's always like, what it's called, like the Gartner Hype Cycle of tech innovation. And so you know, people go in the trough of disillusionment, then you go up the slope of enlightenment. And so I feel like society might at the moment be a bit in the trough of disillusionment. So I hope we kind of rose up slope of enlightenment, you know,
Chris Barker
yeah, I don't want to go the slope of the line.
Will Betts
That's the name of your CO, isn't it?
Chris Barker
No, I was the trough of decision. Thinking about the one next door to me? Oh, yeah. Beautiful. Lovely. Mine's a nightmare.
VNCCII
I just liked the concept of Imagineers. Like, you know, like theme parks, right? You think like Disney and like all the different people cross disciplines, you know. And there's music in the theme parks. Funny story, how I actually discovered Daft Punk was through the Tron section of the theme park. And people go That's so random refilling really
Chris Barker
all today. Fine, was when the album came out in like, 97.
VNCCII
Legit way Yeah, you should discover.
Chris Barker
But that's exactly why those guys do those things as well.
VNCCII
Yeah, I didn't know as Daft Punk. I was in the transaction. And I was like, I love this music and then like, you know, as a teenager, or whatever. And then I just go and go down that pathway of discovering, discover all their old discography. And I'm like, wow. And so if we propelled to today and the future, it's like, can they discover your music in these immersive environments, whether it is a physical space, like on Earth, or virtual, and then deep dive into your music catalog? Right.
Chris Barker
Item number two. Number two, yeah,
Will Betts
we've talked about these incredible imaginary instruments and how they might inform reality. What is the thing you need? Musical?
VNCCII
Yeah, I'll be the norm until I'm one to three. It's my, it's what I record on.
Will Betts
You wouldn't want to be upsold.
VNCCII
I like my Neumann. Yeah. Okay. be convenient. Oh, you can upsell I mean, I liked the sound effects
Thank you.
Will Betts
Do you you want a Neumann U 47?
Chris Barker
Or do you want it in a different finished? You want it signed by somebody who's your vocal hero. You know? Me forever studio?
VNCCII
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know I love I, I was looking at the Telefunken as the mic as well, but I know I'm jumping brands so it's okay. Yeah. Okay.
Will Betts
That's allowed.
VNCCII
What do you recommend for the telephony? I was thinking the the classic, you know, for
Will Betts
251. Yeah, yeah. If it's for voice Yeah, that's yeah, that's the one isn't
VNCCII
it? It is beautiful. I've been eyeing it for quite some time. We've
Chris Barker
had that on the pod before. So
Will Betts
it's a classic vocal mic. Yeah. Yeah. It's punchy as well. That's 12. Grand. It's, it's forever studio territory. Yes. Good. Yeah.
VNCCII
But you know, what I do, I do have like, a really special place for the noise. And I've recorded on my records on it. And so, you know, I can make peace with not upselling you know, I am, I know, I talked about all these crazy imaginative things, but I am a big believer and like, you know, also limiting yourself and putting yourself in a box to make yourself more creative, because you do not need, like, all the fancy gear and equipment, you know, and there's been incredible records that other people have made on Neumann. TLM. 103. It's a beautiful microphone.
Will Betts
It's I mean, it's still so excellent. Mike. Yeah, let's
Chris Barker
Yeah, let's lock in that. Yeah. Monitoring your heart. So
VNCCII
if something was works, you know, yeah,
Will Betts
yeah. And are you just using it for vocals? Are you using it to record other elements?
VNCCII
Just my voice? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, nice. Vocal layering, and all that.
Chris Barker
So we've got four more items left. Moving on to item number three.
VNCCII
See, I love since so like hardware since even though it's in the future, I would still take it with me. So I'd take my profits six. Okay. Just like because I feel like you need to take it's like a time capsule for the future. You know, it's got that beautiful rich form analog sound and six voices and under all the beautiful patches, and you can make your patches and just like the Pegida
Chris Barker
that's the new one, isn't it? Essentially? Yeah. Well, it's
VNCCII
a tribute to the Yeah.
Chris Barker
Yeah, they all that just don't make that sense. Really? Not completely.
Will Betts
Rip Dave Smith. Yeah, I was extremely sad when he passed away. But it's um, yeah. What a legacy. Yeah. And that company?
Chris Barker
Well, five years from now as well. Yeah. incredible legacy. Still Still got the Prophet six there.
VNCCII
Yeah, I feel like it'd be like a museum piece, though. Like, yeah, it'd be like, you know, it'd be cool. If it could talk to me though. It might like give me some ideas.
Will Betts
What kind of ideas is given you so far? Because it sounds like it's right. Okay. The normal kind.
VNCCII
But, you know, just like if it was intelligent, you know, what would that look like?
Chris Barker
Yeah.
VNCCII
I wouldn't mind co creating with an intelligent prophet. Yeah,
Will Betts
that will be cool. I feel like you'd have the voice of KITT from Knight Rider. Hello, Sammy.
Chris Barker
Take the knife.
Will Betts
Come murderous in your mind.
Chris Barker
I just think I just think that's what they want.
VNCCII
This is a positive future collective society. Yeah, that's okay. Okay, maybe maybe have like a glitch setting every now and then the matrix just glitches my
Chris Barker
one. If somebody else walks in the room, and it's like, really nice.
Will Betts
So your synthesizers gaslighting you into murdering? Wow.
Chris Barker
My future is very different. Very different. gear that gaslights me into murdering people. Yeah, anyway, anyway. Okay,
Will Betts
so the profits locked in? Can we hear this on your records? Yeah. Is that something you're using?
VNCCII
Yeah, I have a lot of songs that are unreleased. But it's on those songs. And I've recently performed them in London, Denmark through at the lower third. And I have a lot of the profit in it. Because I'm trying to bring like a future dance record vibe. And so it's got those big, like dramatic chords, you know,
Chris Barker
the trigger in the plane, it lives
VNCCII
in the playback, but I've recorded it in the record sensor
Chris Barker
using control hands on controls when you're playing but MIDI and all that kind of
VNCCII
exactly. But yeah, it's like, you can't replicate that sound that comes with the hardware. So I'd have to take that with me to the studio. Like because you're trying to simulate that when a virtual software sense, you know, yeah, it just never matches the real thing.
Will Betts
And this is much of that to do with just the physicality of it and being able to
VNCCII
Yeah, it's like because you know, I am a Plug-in girl and I love software since you know I do I can make anything and Ableton is great, but it's like sometimes you just want to know get away from the computer and just touch these and be tactile and just, it's almost like you your mind goes into a flow state. Everyone can relate to this, that's a musician. And so that's why I'm like, Yeah, even though everything's intelligent the future and everything could be in the box. Sometimes you need like to have that physical experience that's immersive of like, you know, having those hardware synths to play with. So you're mentally separating yourself from the view of the arrangement in your mind, and you can just jam
Chris Barker
on the limitations of Yeah, you know, not been matched for live everything possible, but like, what's possible with just this?
VNCCII
Exactly. And it's fun playing with all the oscillators and you just know, sometimes you just don't know what you're gonna get, you know, and that's the beauty of like, hardware analog since you know.
Will Betts
And that's why the debate rages on in 500 years. Yes,
VNCCII
I still believe it will be around. Yeah, it's like, Yeah, but I'm just curious. Like, if there will be intelligence. So that's, that's where we're standing right now.
Will Betts
Okay. Item number four then.
VNCCII
The Roland Jupiter eight. The sound that's on the thriller track. Yeah, you just you just know it when you hear it. And so it's killer. Killer. It's expensive to
Chris Barker
Yeah, that's when 10s of 1000s for one now. What's the latest? Well on?
Will Betts
Yeah, that's a good question. They they rock it up in price. Don't they?
Chris Barker
Thought that many? I think there was only hundreds made? I don't know. Did they go into 1000s? Oh,
Will Betts
okay. That's 27,000 years, it'd be insane. salutely off the head to get nearly 30 grand. Maybe sold a favor?
Chris Barker
I don't know. Yeah, there was somebody that just wants one.
VNCCII
But like, I feel like why is that price so high? It's because it's associated with these famous records. Yeah. So no,
Chris Barker
it's just hard to find the mint as well, when that one's clearly meant. And it's like, yeah,
VNCCII
I feel like I assume with like this, this idea that everything's in the box with Ableton. So the Pete the six pieces that I take are almost like museum pieces. Right? Yeah.
Will Betts
I mean, yeah. I mean, you're allowed to play them.
VNCCII
Well, of course. Yeah. That's
Will Betts
like, do you mean looking glass cases? I'm so confused.
VNCCII
No, to play a put on the record. Yeah, I'll take it with me. It's like a time capsule into the future. So I'll be like, remember that time on planet earth when this was used in this record? And it was like it was really famous, like the thriller record? Yeah, it's a sound.
Will Betts
I love that. You've got a time capsule studio. I think.
VNCCII
It's good studio banter. So when I have guests over on this society, like this, yeah, I'd be like, well, you should have been there in 2023. Or in this year and 90, whatever. Yeah, it's like, yeah.
Will Betts
And so again, is that something that you're using on your No, no, I just fantasize about it. Or have you used any of the VSTS? Or like a, you
VNCCII
know, the VSTS that I use are like, I love diva.
Will Betts
That's an amazing VST. Holy,
VNCCII
I shouldn't like that's like, comes with this in Ableton.
Will Betts
That's YUI that does not come with it. I mean, you don't maybe.
VNCCII
I mean, if I had what I use is the diva, so maybe I will take diva because that's on all my records.
Chris Barker
Replacing Jupiter in place at Jupiter. I know.
VNCCII
And I'm just emotionally torn right now. You got two more, two
Will Betts
more left. So well.
VNCCII
Okay. No, let's keep it then. And also add diva as the next item five is diva? I think so. Yeah. Because it's a state like we're going between like, you know, things that it would be fair to see that would love to use versus things that are stable. DeBose, like my stable go to like analog warm sounding software, synths. Plug-in.
Chris Barker
So when did you discover that and tell us about that? Because it's not. It's not that new. But it's one of the one is one of the newer ones. Those kind of legendary bits of software now. Yeah, like, Yeah,
VNCCII
I think it was like six years ago, and I was just looking, you know, before I owned any hardware, since I was like, What is a beautiful warm analog sound that comes as a plugin. So that's how I discovered it from a Google search basically,
Chris Barker
all of his stuff is really great, though, isn't it? That the up stuff? Yeah. Somebody else Heckman, those Heckman up I think so. That sounds
VNCCII
right. Yeah, I just I made my pads with it. A pitch eight is basis leads just everything. Yeah, yeah. It's yeah, that's a helluva Yeah, I really go between that and serum as my
Chris Barker
other big headline one, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Got quite EDM II that one in terms of like,
VNCCII
yeah, and then so I pivot away from that because I do like having that warmth in the record. So yeah, I was if I had to pick a software, warm synths, Plug-in ob diva for me.
Chris Barker
Okay, lock it in. Locked, it's locked. Now when thing gets hectic because now you've got one item left.
VNCCII
I think I know what it is. Okay. It's a Steinway grand piano. I pitch because I play piano but and so like, when I write my songs, I'm a songwriter. I'd like to sometimes just sit at a piano and go does this work with no electronics? Nothing. So it's like a tester. I would love if it was like, I don't know like, zero gravity. So In a fictional studio, it's just like, I don't know if it's like an A pod or something,
Chris Barker
but that doesn't have legs, it just flows. It's the same shape, but just I just kind of would like
VNCCII
to float up to it and just like sit in it and then like, feel like you know, when you go to those, like 360s Cinema experiences and so, like, as I'm playing, I'm not really my floating, but I feel like I'm in a 360s in a mess. And maybe the environment changes to like a new outer space.
Chris Barker
A new random panel that has drone speakers. I see. No, I haven't seen that. And they launched as this one is going to be a weird dream of theirs and they've got a little drones that float around the speakers to the keyboard. 50th anniversary, here we go.
Will Betts
RONIS astonishing. 50th anniversary panic comes with flying drones speakers. Oh my god.
VNCCII
That's perfect.
Chris Barker
Yeah. So you could have this okay. Yeah, we have we have easily absorbed some dreams. Yeah. So you can have like a floating Steinway. But with drones surround sound something
VNCCII
something like that. Yeah. I just kind of like the the feeling of like, I don't know, playing a grand piano and space. I don't know. Like, I'm just really set on that environment. So if it can shift,
Chris Barker
a lot of my friends would say that's where I need to play piano
Will Betts
right. In space. Where no one can hear
Chris Barker
in a vacuum. Chris, you placed in space? I don't know. No. in space.
Will Betts
Right. Back Yes.
VNCCII
Yeah. But you know, it was just I just think, you know, it's like a classic and, you know, it's like, you can't go wrong with it. It's just
Chris Barker
so we're talking the big one. Model D was it the one? Yeah, just
VNCCII
a big black one. Yeah. Yes. The classic. Yes. A classic. Well, before we get that Elton John moment, you know, like floating in space again,
Chris Barker
Tiny Dancer. Yeah, yeah. Pretty much.
Will Betts
Rocket Man. Yeah, rockin.
VNCCII
Exactly. Yeah, again. Cuz, you know, it's moments like I'm making a record. I'm super like, you know, electronically, and I might play with my sins. Oh, I forgot. We've run out of items, haven't we? Well, you can
Will Betts
always switch whenever you want to do want to just
Chris Barker
run through before we
Will Betts
run through just what which one? Are you thinking and where are you going with this? Yeah, I
VNCCII
was gonna I just thought of it. Ya know, the MOOC grandmother, the semi modular?
Will Betts
What do you got? I mean,
VNCCII
yeah, I feel like, I'm happy with what we've got. So that's cool. I can I can make peace. But if I could add a seventh third. I would take it with me. My little baby.
Chris Barker
seventh item is a luxury item, which isn't gear related.
Will Betts
So you've got one of these heavy units in your setup? It is
VNCCII
yeah. And I use it in my records. So I feel like I'm neglecting a baby now. Yeah,
Chris Barker
just tossed out of the out of the airlock. Crucial, yeah. Run through and see how this sounds. Like Yeah, listen, and we'll see what we've got. And then we'll get to look.
Will Betts
We're on an exoplanet. 500 years in the future. It's Zen like vibey completely at one with nature and technology. The surround is a bit like a glorified theme park with zero G play areas within a utopian society. As one of the most detailed locations we've had so far. Your free items are an Apple Mac Pro. Your interface is a UA Apollo X AP your da w is Ableton Live 11 suite and for your items for speakers you have chosen general Genelec Atmos rig. Your second item is a Neumann TLM 103 microphone your since you've chosen a sequential Prophet six, a Roland Jupiter eight and a soft synth you he diva. And then finally, you've rounded out your six choice with the Steinway Model D grand piano in a zero G Tube. Why not? Without work do you think that's gonna give you enough range to do what you need to do?
VNCCII
Yeah, whether it's practical, I don't know. But in my imagination, it sounds fantastic. So yeah, counselling soft lock that in
Chris Barker
all that's left is then your luxury. I am like, what what are we? What are we thinking something that's not a piece of gear, but that you want in the studio for eternity?
VNCCII
Goodness. So if it's an old piece of gear I had, I had an idea of it. It might come under, it's not music gear, so maybe I'll work it was like a Vinci branded haptics. Just so you know, how you how you have the Tesla haptic suits right now, right? Now. It's like VR, and you can like simulate, like motion capture, but you can also feel okay, the experience, right, you know, so if you're in a first person shooter game, you can feel it on the haptic suit. You're getting like,
Will Betts
Yeah, sure.
VNCCII
Yeah. But instead of like, that, that it's like positive and so like, imagine it's like 500 and it's a feature. It's like a small Vinci soup. And it's like it like self regenerates. It's it kind of like instead of like making you feel like any of those experiences is on positive experiences. So like, what would sound frequency healing feel like on the body? Right? Okay. And so like anything maybe that you make in the future in the studio is like OLED tuned to a frequency that has a positive effect on because our bodies are made up of a flight, primarily water. And if you think about somatics, it produces geometric patterns like Cymatics. So, like, what would that look like if the music was so perfectly in tune with our natural body, you know, homeostasis, you know? And so these suits kind of like, amplified that positive experience, right in like, so you're in like this full on Zen environment. My do I do love EDM music. So I know there's a bit of a tension there. But what I would like is also because I would do the avatar thing and a motion capture is of interest. Maybe this has multipurpose suit, maybe it's also can motion capture. So anything that I'm doing is also like it's also like a mocap suit for the VINCI character in some simulated virtual environment.
Will Betts
Amazing. Yeah, that's,
Chris Barker
that's a new one and detail. Yeah. Very, very, very cool.
Will Betts
Incredible. Right. Well, I mean, let's talk about that. Because that's that's the end of our, our show, really, but let's talk about what you've got going on. Outside of fantasy forever land in the in the real world. What's going on with you right now? What's coming up
Chris Barker
in the real and unreal? And? Ah, yeah,
VNCCII
no, Santa. was waiting for that. Couldn't get I couldn't I just couldn't?
Yeah, no, I love that question. Yeah. So I mean, I just did a show for the Brits with sponsored by MasterCard. And that was like the first kind of physical debut of me performing as the VINCI character. Because I've been into a lot of VR performances. And I've been performing for quite some time. But in terms of this stage show that kind of fits with this novel that I've written. It's bringing it all together into a live entertainment experience. So you feel like you're entering like a space opera, pop dance musical. And so yeah, more of those shows coming up. But yeah, it was really nice to like debut it here in London,
Chris Barker
do people come to like virtual shows as well as characters themselves?
VNCCII
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's really nice as well, seeing people in real life and like, you're just like, Oh, that was you in that virtual environment? Yeah. Yeah. And so like, I, I just, there's nothing better than performing physically. And that was always like, the end roadmap for me. But I always wanted to tell a story, you know, because I've grew up in the musical theater space as well. So rather than be cast in another musical, I was like, I'm casting myself as Vinci. So I'm just playing the role of venture.
Chris Barker
So the potential to do like, so you do the live show at the same time as the virtual show, so like, positive, so like, people can tune in?
VNCCII
Yep. That's where it's going. And like, I'm excited about augmented reality holograms. I mean, that's not new. But like, what I love is like, I could wear like, you know, a stage outfit mocap suit physically and perform. But there could also be in real time and unreal, the VINCI character in some environment, and maybe they can AI translate it to Korean or something. Yeah. There's another audience. Yeah. And so like, all of these things, is like, really excites me about the future of technology, and like, where it can go with live entertainment, because I just love good stage shows, and, you know, musicals, theme parks. So yeah, a lot of my efforts are going towards putting on the best show that's entertaining as possible. And so, you know, it feels like you're immersed in a story. And so a lot of the music that I perform was like, unreleased. And so it's going to come out in an interesting way, because it's going to connect with the novel. So when people open the novel, it's like the opening a chapter and there's a song that relates to that chapter.
Will Betts
Oh, great. Yeah.
Chris Barker
And when when when can we expect this stuff to start coming out
VNCCII
this year? Yeah. Okay. Stay tuned. Yes.
Will Betts
Excellent. And with all of the stuff about Super sentient AI, you can in some of your YouTube stuff about what's going to happen when this when the singularity arrives, how far away do you think the singularity is?
VNCCII
According to Ray Kurzweil in his book, The Singularity Is Near he said, 2045 but I believe it'd be sooner. But, you know, because like, we're already seeing, like, an exponential Cambrian explosion of like, AI, I'm sure you've seen like, how that is affecting like, like all young musician, friends, right. Yeah. And so like, you know, the whole point of this character in 2018, is I read that book, and I saw this was all going to happen like fast forward now. 2023 It's happening. It's not super sentient yet but you know, it's on the it's on the trajectory so
Chris Barker
well, I don't you always think like, what what we know now that exists, like, just on the internet like chat GPT and all that kind of stuff. That stuff on somebody's computer somewhere. Yeah. But you know, without going conspiracy theory, but it's like it's so far behind. You know, I mean, there's something this.
VNCCII
Yeah. But you know, it's like when, you know, music, the democratization of music production, and like people can make, like a hit record in the box, you know, and like, that was like such an outrage to traditional engineers and producers. Some of them,
Chris Barker
you know, was an outrage to orchestras when it was invented, wasn't it? Because they were like, you can just play all of the notes. You don't need a strike and all sorts and they saw this, I'm hanging up my boss.
VNCCII
We still love going to orchestra. Yeah, we can't replicate that. And so I think that's the same view. We're just going through that now with this AI stuff.
Will Betts
And are you using any of the AI generative tools in your work?
VNCCII
I've played with them. But I've decided like, ethically, no, I just want everything at this point to be because that's the irony. She's a fictional AI character, but I'm a human and like, I just want to put as much humanity as possible. And so it's really funny. The first song that we put out as Vinci it was called Citizen AI. And it was like, after I sold this fee, the robot, then I was thinking, what does that mean giving an AI citizenship? You know? Yeah, yeah. Why? And so this, the song was super midtempo, bass, electronic, industrial. And it's, it's kind of ironic, because it's yes, it is an AI. But as I kept progressing, making songs through this character, I came back to my roots as a singer, songwriter, and wanting more and more humanity, and actually the song I'm working on now it was with an orchestra. i Right. Okay. Yeah. And so it's part of the upcoming, you know, release with the novel and everything. So, you know, I don't see myself as a genre artists, I kind of see myself as a storyteller and how I want to fit the sounds to said story. And so as I finished writing the novel, I realized how much emotion is put in this character, you know, like, you know what I mean? And so it's like, it felt like a human to me. So I was like, I've got to make this music feel. You know, super emotional, you know? Yeah. Right. And that's the irony, because it's like, she's positioned as this fictional AI character. But I'm like, presenting her as like someone that's going through the entire human experience.
Will Betts
Yeah. That's very singularity. Right? Yeah.
VNCCII
Yeah. Yeah. It's getting a bit matrix for me. I don't know about you guys. It's all Yeah.
Will Betts
Okay. Well, thank you very much for being on the show. Sammy, aka Vinci. Appreciate you coming on.
Chris Barker
Yeah, amazing stuff. My mind has been blown. Thank you so much.
VNCCII
Thank you for having me.
Chris Barker
Well, well, another great episode.
Will Betts
I love that she's doing so many out there things. What an interesting guest loved it. Definitely,
Chris Barker
definitely. Well, all that's left to say is thank you for tuning in. And as join us next time for more adventures in the studio for evidence.
Will Betts
Bye bye bye.