Many-aliased producer and electronic music legend Amon Tobin joins us on the show this time. With a career that spans nearly 30 years, he’s created landmark electronic music for labels like Ninja Tune and had his music featured in TV, Film and video games. And his ISAM live show and others have pushed the boundaries of live performance. But what will this vast music career mean for his limited studio choices?
Many-aliased producer and electronic music legend Amon Tobin joins us on the show this time. With a career that spans nearly 30 years, he’s created landmark electronic music for labels like Ninja Tune and had his music featured in TV, Film and video games. And his ISAM live show and others have pushed the boundaries of live performance. But what will this vast music career mean for his limited studio choices?
Season 5 is sponsored by Audient: audient.com
STUFF WE TALK ABOUT (SPOILERS AHEAD!)
https://xitelabs.com/portfolio/amon-tobin/
https://www.steinberg.net/cubase/
https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/tour-noisia-studio-watch-8070260/
https://www.neumann.com/en-en/products/monitors/kh-420/
https://reverb.com/uk/p/neumann-m-49
https://gearspace.com/board/interviews/1368126-interview-sylvia-massy.html
https://buchla.com/music-easel/
https://nomarkrecords.bandcamp.com/the-nomark-club
Chris Barker
Hi, I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts
And I'm Will Betts and this is the music tech my forever studio podcast brought to you in partnership with Audient.
Chris Barker
In this podcast we speak with musicians DJs engineers and producers about their fantasy forever studio.
Will Betts
The make believe studio that our guests back up today will be one that they must live with for the rest of time. But even in the world of studio for evidence, we have a few rules.
Chris Barker
Yes, the rules, our guests get to select a computer, a DAW and an audio interface. Those are three items that we let everybody choose, then our guests will choose just six of the bits of studio gear plus one non studio related luxury item.
But no bundles
no bundles, choosing something sold as a package of separate software or hardware as a single item is not allowed.
Will Betts
This time we're joined by a legend of electronic music production and a Master of sound manipulation.
Chris Barker
Yes, with a career that spans nearly 30 years he's created landmark electronic music for labels like Ninja tune, and has music featured in TV, film and video games.
Will Betts
His shows have pushed the boundaries of life performance and he releases music under the pseudonyms, two fingers, stone giants and many more. But what will his vast music career mean his studio choices today?
Chris Barker
Well, let's find out. This is my favorite studio with Amon Tobin. Welcome.
Amon Tobin
Welcome. Hello. Good morning. Welcome.
Chris Barker
Thanks for joining us today. So let's do a little leap from beginning to now quickly in your career. I mean, we're talking kit on this podcast. I mean, what were your first sort of explorations into electronic music making or music making? Generally Did you did you play instruments first and then and then sort of dabble with electronic music or you straight into electronic music? Oh, man,
Amon Tobin
I started out with tape. So when I was about 1312 13, I washed cars for a summer. And I saved up for this twin cassette recorder thing. And that was the dream, that was the dream, I wanted to record the sort of top 40 That was playing on a Sunday and make my own top 40 and then bring it to school. And then what I do is I got more and more into that. But like, you know, it's a twin cassette thing. So I could do edits. And what I do is I take the top 40 tracks, but then the parts of the songs I didn't really like I take those out. So I ended up with this sort of like, you know, sort of like distilled version of the top 40. And then that kind of went on. And I started just like editing the tracks more and more and more, until it got to a sort of very collage II thing, I got really adept at the pause record, you know, the little shuffle you have to do with the cassette recorder thing. And that sort of led into psych sampling in the 90s. I feel like that was way later. But there was a really sort of natural little line to draw between one thing and the other, you know, from taking recordings manipulating them. And that's, that's really why it came from for me was
Chris Barker
I mean, it seems natural to us now. But like at the time, how did you make that? That mentally then a lot of people when they were in school, take the top 40 and things like that, but like then getting, I guess you hit the limits of that tape machine. You're like, I want to do this, how do I do this? Or were you looking at other artists that were doing it and started to do sampling? And we listening to sample music? No,
Amon Tobin
no, no, no, there was nothing even to do with music. It was really just to do with editing. Like I wasn't trying to be a musician or listening to you know, what people were doing with tape or samples. I had no idea any of the shit existed honestly, like I I remember listening to Paul Hardcastle. 19, right. And just being like that. So odd the way that sound triggers the same every time. You know, I mean, like, none or not 90, you know, and it was this that thing and it went on to let you listen to early hip hop and the way all that stuff seems so it was strange, like, you know, obviously, you can go back to like the Fairlight and all of that sort of stuff for for sampling or Mellotron or whatever. But for me, my introduction to all of that was was sort of like late 80s Well, I guess mid to late 80s sampling and you know, I didn't have a sampler I had a tape machine but essentially the same role that was playing
Chris Barker
Of course what I mean and with that in mind like how do you work now like you sampling into sample type devices or you know, plugins or are you are you using like that tape style, you throwing stuff straight on to the the door timeline and chopping it right up right in front of you
Amon Tobin
know, I mean, I haven't sampled anything for a long time. So what happened was it moved on, like it kept on moving and changing. So I started, if you imagine with these big chunks, right, like, so you sample the top 40. And then you make a song and then you sample the song and you make a different song out of it. And then, by the time I was actually using samplers, I wasn't even, it was more like I was taking six or seven different drum solos from different recordings and trying to make my own solo out of them. And then, by the time like, my second album came round, I was taking little grains of those samples, and then reordering those, and it got to the point where the sort of point of origin of these sound samples didn't really matter.
Chris Barker
Yeah, because you're creating something new sonically, regardless of where, where it was, from,
Amon Tobin
you know, what it was, I tell you, what we're really was was, it was about sort of capturing the energy of a recording like a photograph. If you think of those, like the look of sports photograph, someone in midair jumping, and you can sort of, you can tell what happened before and what's going to happen after but in that frozen moment, you have all of the energy of both things encapsulated in that moment. And that's more or less how I viewed sampling is it managed to trap the energy of something much bigger than its little component, you know, in that little capsule, and then when you recontextualize, that and you put it amongst lots of other things that are pulling lots of other directions, you end up with a really dynamic and interesting sound. And what I found is you can do that with smaller and smaller and smaller particles, and they'll still retain some energy of something before. But you know, all of that, like I took sampling as far as I could take it. And that was way back in the 90s. And then from then I went to like synthesizing the samples. So you I'd make field recordings, and then I'd synthesize those, I'd turn them into waveforms and have a lot more sort of a liquid property to them, where you can pull them about in different ways, you know, that you can't really do with waveforms. So yeah, sampling is a long gone for me, but it's definitely informed the way I make music.
Chris Barker
I think that's got to be one of the best ways of explaining, capturing sampling that photograph analogies. Yeah, my mind is one. Perfect way of encapsulating Okay, well, sorry, my mind's been blown. And that was amazing. That was such a great example of like, why samples sound the way they do even when you pull them right, right down to like that kind of granular level one,
Amon Tobin
I'm sure like anyone who is like recorded sound and listened to recorded sound understands that for whatever reason, like God knows how many people have tried to recreate like breaks, famous breaks, Bernard Purdie breaks or Amon break or whatever. And you can play the same pattern, you can nail the swing, you can do all of that, and it will won't have it won't sound the same. And the reason it's, it's not just to do with the equipment, it's not just to do with how it was recorded, it's really to do with the moment it was recorded in. So you know, you can, you can analyze and deconstruct every element of that recording, but to recreate it is pretty much impossible. That's why I think it's so powerful
Will Betts
in terms of moving to synthesis, because you basically, if you're talking about taking it down smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller from a sample, you get to what a granular level of synthesis. Did you get into granular synthesis then or what after that? I did?
Amon Tobin
Yeah, I did. And it was a, it was a strange sort of full circle, because so much of the point of sampling is having a sense of where the sound came from, too, I sort of appreciate what you're going to do with it, what you've done with it, what the new context for it is you need to have a reference point for where it came from. So you lose that. At a certain point when the sample is small enough, when the grain is small enough, it's irrelevant where the origin is. But as I say, I still think it traps that little capsule of energy. And so it becomes almost an abstraction of where the origin is about it's still has has that sort of intention. Somehow, I think, anyway, it's like getting a bit cosmic, but I do feel that there is something about that, that yeah, it's kind of strange.
Chris Barker
Well, it's kind of what's taught with a lot of, you know, abstract painters and stuff. There's often very detailed, accurate drawings beneath the abstraction isn't there? And it's kind of a similar thing, I guess. Nobody, nobody is abstract immediately or not often anyway, usually comes from like a trained space of being able to view the bigger thing and then break it down.
Amon Tobin
Oh, no, you're completely right. Completely, right. Yeah. Completely and when I did my show I, I paid a lot of attention to that, actually, because it was this. I can remember being very conscious of having this show I'm talking about as the thing I did some time ago where there was a bunch of sort of morphing cubes on stage, and they turn into different shapes and whatever then, and the people I was working with doing the visualization stuff, we're talking a lot about all these abstract, you know, forms and stuff. And I was adamant that I had to start with something tangible, so that you could then abstract from it. Because if you just start with a bunch of noise that nobody has any reference for what happened. Where's the magic in that? You know, you need to watch something transformed from something recognizable an anchor point, at first. And I think you're absolutely right. I think that that applies to all kinds of abstraction in any sort of medium.
Chris Barker
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Will Betts
Just on that point, because I went to go and see Sam twice. I was so mind blown. The first time I saw I took an another mate when it was when he was still doing it in London. And so I have a few questions about like, because you're working with is it Xcite labs you working with on that on the 3d projection mapping? And all this?
Amon Tobin
Oh, it was a, it was a bunch of people, because right, I had the whole sort of concept and all the storyboards and all of that. But obviously, I'm not like, I don't know how to make it. I don't know how to make projection mapping actually happen or any of that stuff. So I had these amazing people that helped me realize the stuff I wanted to work with. Vita motors and v squared, were two of them of Leviathan as well. People like Peter Systrom, and Heather short lived, lots of people were involved in actually making it happen.
Will Betts
And you were talking about turning it turning these tiny grains into and having the the narrative for the grains to for them to make sense in the context of the live show. So did you start with the musical? Did you start with the concept of what the visual of B were? What was that process? Like?
Amon Tobin
Yeah, it was always the music because the show really only came about because I didn't have a way to perform the music, right. As an electronic musician, I really don't see a place for myself on stage in general, I feel like there's no reason to be onstage as an electronic musician released for me. So I had to find a way because you know, I'm not making dance music. And so DJing doesn't really work. And then I'm not playing with musicians. So being on a stage doesn't work out, why are you going to stand and watch me hunched over a laptop or whatever it is, you know, it. So the idea was to try and make us something that would represent what the music was doing visually, in order to make something that was worth watching, right, as well as hearing hopefully. So that was the thing, the whole thing was kind of like a sort of a solution to a puzzle. And it ended up being this, this whole thing that grew and, you know, blah, blah, blah, but But yeah, it was, it was really a sort of form following function thing. How do I do this? You know,
Will Betts
you're underselling it so much. Just for anyone listening. This was one of the this is one of the most formative musical experiences of my life. And you're just like, yeah, it's just a solution to a problem. Delightful, love it.
Amon Tobin
Oh, thank you.
Will Betts
We should we should kick off the format.
Chris Barker
Let's kick off building the stream studio. Okay, so we're building your forever studio. So if you could have your studio anywhere in the universe, the world, the universe, wherever, where would you put that studio and why? And, you know, do you have it right now? Or is it you know, tell us about your dream location.
Amon Tobin
All right. Well, all right. First of all, there's probably a big difference between my dream studio and my fantasy studio, because my dream studio would be some fucking Bond villain lair right? With our some crazy floating room with all the best shit and very, very functional and clean and most importantly, inaccessible, so that no one can just drop round and now I could be like, Hey, man is in the area. And like, you know, you musicians. That's cool. Right? You know, I mean, like, it would just be like, No, you're here because you've been invited because we're working on something and that's it. But my fantasy studio would be very different. That would be first of all in somewhere in the 1970s. Probably like, in Manhattan, and it would be a mess. It would be you know, they'd be crime and there'd be a revolving door of interesting, colorful, eccentric characters that would come in and tell stories and make music, it would be a completely different thing. And we'd somehow make fantastic music in amongst all of that. But very different things.
Chris Barker
I mean, both are doable on the on the My forever studio podcasts. I mean, where do you want to base yourself? Are we going to go for night in seven years? Manhattan are we going to go for you wouldn't be the first to do the Bond villain thing by the way that's been on the show before so yeah, no
Amon Tobin
doubt. I mean, that's that's the thing, isn't it? That's the dream. Oh, you don't know you're in the deep in the jungle in Ecuador. And in some pod floating over a river or something? I don't know. I just to be honest, I've my dream studio is so it's so functional. You know, I've always done so much with so little just because I had to, and I just I don't buy into this whole thing of gear in general. I know it sounds counterintuitive.
Chris Barker
Now. You're gonna love the show, you only get six choices. So
Amon Tobin
that's cool. I mean, you don't need a lot of stuff. I don't I don't know. I think I don't think their location matters. I don't want any windows in my studio. So I don't care where it is. What matters is it's quiet. And nobody can get to it. Because cuz I don't want to be interrupted.
Chris Barker
Okay, well, I think Bond villain jungle floating studio sounds pretty good. All right. You can always change your mind later. Let's Let's lock that in. And let's get to some, some gear basics. And we'll come back to it when when you start hearing this thing form, you might change your mind a bit. So. So the first things we let every guest pick is a computer, a DAW and an audio interface. Sky's the limit.
Amon Tobin
I don't care. I honestly like, I feel like I have a Mac because that's what I know. I'd Cubase because that's what I know. And I I mean, all the audio interfaces is so good now. I mean, I feel like the I don't know. I'm sure there's like some super clocking, you know, high point that i
Chris Barker
What are you running right now?
Amon Tobin
I'm just running. Apollo 16x 16, I think is as fine.
Chris Barker
Yeah, I mean, again, it's, it's a regular choice. Cubase though is? It's sort of not the most popular door for a lot of people nowadays. I love you, Steinberg. But it's kind of true. Did you start on it and just never left? Or was it something that you that you have moved between? Yeah,
Amon Tobin
no. I mean, I tried. I mean, I went home, went to other studios, it was always Pro Tools. And I just, I never liked the MIDI in Pro Tools. And yeah, I mean, logic. And that was cool, too. I mean, I think they all have Ableton I never got into I think it's probably by far the most powerful one now. But I kind of like not using it just because I I feel like the way you work. It's not dictated by your door, but it's informed by it. And if your information is similar to a ubiquitous, you know, choice, then you may be might get a slightly more ordinary information into that. I don't know, you know, I mean, I just feel like
Chris Barker
I yeah, I would agree. I think I think with Cubase especially like I've interviewed a lot of people that do use Cubase and it's always sort of people on the more alternative side,
Amon Tobin
I just I think that it's I've watched it develop over the years and it's still blows my mind how good it is. It's so good. And I don't know Look, I'm sure everybody says they're about the shit they use. It's that's why I don't think it matters that much. I don't but I do really love it. And I am impressed how it's been updated over the years and the improvements they've made to it. And I just Yeah, I don't I don't have any need to try a different door honestly.
Chris Barker
So should we do you want to lock in the UA D the 16 keep it as it
Amon Tobin
is okay. Yeah, that's my dream.
Chris Barker
Well, I mean, unless Unless you've been to a studio and you thought this sounds great, and you want to steal something from somebody else's studio or somebody you know,
Amon Tobin
well, does that mean for free? i Oh, I just like years ago, there used to be this big difference right? And I remember i kappa G and stuff was like all right. Let's go. But let's spend the extra and stuff. But now, I do struggle to hear that the sonic difference between the different you know, at a certain price point at least. And I could be really wrong about that. As I say, I'm not really a gearhead, frankly, but I do. I do think they all a certain price points sound pretty great, you know?
Chris Barker
Yeah, so that's fine. Well, that's what you've got so far and nothing else all right in your floating time capsule in the forest Bond villain layer so now we get on to item number one of gear. So what would be the first bit of studio gear to go in your stream studio? Is this something that you've always used throughout your career or something that you've always wanted that you've never been able to get ahold of?
Amon Tobin
Oh, well at the room, I think would be the first thing if I could get a room designed by who's that Scandinavian? Do did noises studio. Do you know what I'm talking about? It's like some checkout noises noisiest Studio online. At some point. It's pretty amazing.
Chris Barker
Isn't it Dutch guy who designed it is in Dutch.
Amon Tobin
I don't know. It's like a you know, it's like a glass cube or so. Those speakers are in glass. It's kind of it's insane. Yeah.
Will Betts
The name is Thomas. I'm gonna mispronounce this Juwan Jean of Northwood acoustics. This is JOUANJE A N. For listeners at home. Look at it in the show notes. But yeah,
Amon Tobin
yeah, that's what that's the first stop there. No, I want that guy to design my room. Okay. I think the room is so important. You know, I mean, you can put all kinds of great things in a terrible room. So if I can just start with that. And I don't know if you can call that Zach cheating.
Chris Barker
Well, I guess I guess with that, that's going to choose your speakers. Oh, sure.
Amon Tobin
Well, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, he'd have to basically because you know, I just go with my k and h because I love my K and H speakers. I guess they're called Neumann now, but I had them when they Okay, Nate. I would use those in a studio. But if this guy was designed in the studio, he probably had something to say about that. And I'd listen, you know,
Chris Barker
did Neumann do installs or kleinen humble do installs or do they still use? No, I don't know. soffit mounted ones. I don't know. I guess this acoustic designer builds his own rigs, right.
Amon Tobin
I think he does. Or at least he is certainly has a say in what goes in the room.
Will Betts
What say you can tell him to get some some of those Norman's The KH what the biggest ones they do. I think the 420s would be the big big ones.
Chris Barker
You got to fit those in. That's the dream. Would that feel right? So
Will Betts
you've at least got the family sound? How do you feel about that?
Amon Tobin
That's great. I mean, that's what I have now. And I love those speakers. So to have a room that deserves them would be amazing.
Chris Barker
That's quite a good item number one that's a bit of a hack as well. It's like you get your acoustics done. And you get the client Hummels. soffit mounted into the studio.
Amon Tobin
That's it. I'm trying to be pragmatic about this. I'm building it from the ground up. Yes.
Chris Barker
Okay, so let's lock that in. Then. Well, and let's, let's move on to item number two of your, your dream studio. What else would we see in there? Ah,
Amon Tobin
I would love one of those new Neve desks. Are they Is it the 5088 I can't remember where it's called.
Will Betts
The Rupert Neve Designs desk because it Yeah, Rupert
Amon Tobin
Neve Designs. I know that like a vintage one would be cooler and all of that, but I you know, I use the new Rupert Neve Designs stuff. And I really appreciate that it's not vintage. I love that they've taken all of the the great stuff about what makes what made their sound famous or what made Rupert sound famous and made it kind of less of a of a, you're less locked into that. And there's more to it than that. I don't know. I just I I'm alright, with new gear. There are some things that I think need to be vintage, but I don't know if that's one of them. I don't know. But uh, yeah, I'd probably have a big old Rupert Neve Designs desk in there.
Chris Barker
So what's the model number on that? Well,
Will Betts
that's the 50 Ada. You're absolutely right. Yeah. So what is it about having a desk then in your setup? Why? Why do you need it for your workflow?
Amon Tobin
Well, I don't need Yeah, exactly. You think well, it's just the luxury of having separate compression and EQ, I guess as hardware on every single channel would be would be a dream. You know? I think dead mouse has that. He does and I would love That said, I mean, because I obviously it doesn't make sense to have a desk really, unless you're working with a bunch of musicians and recording. But this is the dream, right? So yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'd have individual hardware channels for compression and EQ.
Chris Barker
I'm enjoying the fact that we don't have to upsell your dreams. Like we do so many other guests who just go I don't need that.
Amon Tobin
But I don't need it. No. Yeah. This is a dream.
Chris Barker
seadream studio. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Let's move on to item number three. What else is going? What are we plugging into this Neve?
Amon Tobin
Well, how many instances of these things? Can we have
Chris Barker
got four items left? Yeah, you've got four items left, you've got your speakers, you've got your desk and get your your free stuff before.
Amon Tobin
All right, well, I guess I'd need I'd need a fair child.
Chris Barker
I guess I need to fetch.
Amon Tobin
I do need a fair child. I have one of those analog solution. Fair child's and it's, it blows my mind. How simple the good stuff is. How simple to use. It is not how simple it is. But I understand why it's like everyone's Oh, virtual Oh, you know, because it's just like, wow, everything downstream from there is so much easier, because it just sorts it out and makes it beautiful. And then it's like our don't have to do anything to this afterwards. You know, I mean, you set it, it does its thing and off you go. So yeah, a vintage one of those would
Chris Barker
be so so you've got a recreation at the moment. Did you say yeah, there's
Amon Tobin
a guy called analog solutions He's based in England,
Will Betts
or is this the analog tube? 670. It's analog to Rk I know that. Yeah. So this is reasonably priced as I mean, as reasonable as you can possibly get when you're still using those ancient tubes. But yeah, exactly. They're amazing. Things are beautiful.
Amon Tobin
They are it's a real, it's a real piece of art. And they're under the hood. And, and yeah, he went through a lot of trouble to get the tubes. And I think that was the sort of bottleneck with it was finding the tubes again, because they weren't manufactured. And anyway, whatever. I think I've Yeah, a real one of those of v v. Great. I mean, a real one. This is a real one. It's beautiful. But yeah, a vintage one would be interesting to try.
Will Betts
When would you steal a particular? Would you take a particular one that had been used on particular recordings? Because I mean, it's a very particular choice. Do you think you don't have any any instruments yet?
Amon Tobin
Well, I do record vocals, and okay, and
Chris Barker
not in this studio. Not yet.
Amon Tobin
Knowing this, try it without the mic. I do need the mic. Yeah, no, I think Sure. I'll take the one that Pink Floyd use, I guess. That would be great. Or the Beatles, obviously, maybe a Beatles one. I mean, here though, they seems like I have I have all the options in the world here. So why not?
Will Betts
Yeah, yeah. Okay, perfect. That was
Chris Barker
that was well absorbed. Well,
Will Betts
thank you very much.
Chris Barker
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Will Betts
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Chris Barker
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Will Betts
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Chris Barker
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Will Betts
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Chris Barker
item number four. Mike
Amon Tobin
Well, I do need a mic alright. So the Neumann M 49. Actually is what I am recording on now. I do have a vintage one of these and this is what I'm flexing here. But yeah, what's going on so good strong flags. I'm afraid that my favorite gear I don't have a lot of it. And I, I've got a few of these things, and I would take them with me. There's nothing else I'd want. I don't want a different because it's specific for your voice, I guess. Right? And and for my voice this thing seems to be the right choice.
Will Betts
So when did you discover that you sounded amazing on the? The M 49. What? What was that scenario?
Amon Tobin
I don't think I've ever discovered that was sounded amazing. But I feel like this one, at least makes me feel like you know, I could aspire to, to that. And it brings out you know what it is, as I recorded this, this album in at Capitol Records with Sylvia Massey, do you know Sylvia Massey? Yep. No, yeah, she's great. Yeah. And she is like, the god of microphones. She knows everything about every microphone. She's got
Will Betts
that museum as well. Of course, the microphone museum she's working on. That's insane.
Amon Tobin
That's right. Exactly. And yeah, I knew nothing about microphones going into those sessions. And she hooked me up with one of those. And why was a replica in the studio, but it sounded great. And it was there with
Will Betts
I can't remember what compressor? It wasn't the army man. Was it?
Amon Tobin
I don't remember. There's a picture of it somewhere. But she had Yeah, she had a pretty good chain going on. And, and she was ies, though we'd been through a bunch of different mics tried a whole bunch of different ones. And this was the one she was like, oh, no, this is the one. And so yeah, when I found I found one just happened to find one going for sale. And I snapped it up. Figured I'd only ever buy one microphone. And so that's the one I take with me.
Will Betts
Yeah. Nice. And what was that record you're recording with her?
Amon Tobin
As Figaro was called Figure hour. It's like it's an electronic folk record. So if you imagine it's not me trying to make a folk record, it's me trying to make an electronic record through the lens of folk music. So all the guitars are synthesized. They're synthesized guitars, and my voice is the only natural thing on there. Everything else is is is sort of invented. And the guitars are doing things that guitar players can't really do because they don't have enough fingers. And so that's kind of the thing and they sound a bit odd. And it's a it's a really bizarre and interesting record. I think
Will Betts
it's an interesting faux par you've made there that guitarists at home might be going ah, you know when they listen to somebody who's written guitar for and they don't play guitar to have too many fingers down. It's like when you're programming drums and a drummer listens to it. No one could play that, mate. No.
Chris Barker
There's always somebody that can do. There's always somebody that can.
Amon Tobin
I've never heard anyone play the aim and in reverse. You know, there's things that the whole point of I think synthesizing stuff is to do things that the instrument can't do because otherwise, learn how to play a guitar learn how to play the drums. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with those sounds they're perfect. On
Chris Barker
isn't the isn't the bass solo in the middle of Cole meow, a guy with a volume pedal. It's not actually reversed. The guy learned to play it to sound reversed.
Amon Tobin
That's clever. I don't know.
Chris Barker
I don't use like a volume pedal to take the attacks out, I think because it was it was reversed originally. And then the guy said I'm going to learn how to play it. In that that might be kind of, you know, folklore studio session folklore, but like Yeah, I like the idea of learning with a volume pedal.
Amon Tobin
I do too. Yeah, I think that's really interesting. I just don't think there's there has to be a crossover or like a one or the other point. I just feel like too much sort of electronic and synthesized music is aspiring to sound like a sort of budget version of what real instruments do. And I think that's terrible. Yeah,
Chris Barker
it kind of defeats the point. It's the same with plugins. I felt that for a while, like, there's a lot of plugins or there was there was kind of this fetish for Plug-ins Just looking and having the same exact features of analog equipment.
Amon Tobin
Oh my god. And it'd be like,
Chris Barker
if they could make the analog equipment have a wet dry control they would have but you know, there was some manufacturing costs or whatever, but like on your Plug-in Put that on. Yeah, put these tools on that we want. When you can name finit Yeah, anyway,
Amon Tobin
and stop putting like little stupid dials that you have to rotate with your mouse on a fucking Plug-in Like what is happening, you know? I don't know.
Will Betts
I'm hearing not a fan of skeuomorphic design. Is that what we're getting?
Amon Tobin
I just don't understand what what I mean. I do I guess it's a marketing thing. But yeah, spend any real time with any of this stuff you really realize you don't need a chipped paint on your plugins
Chris Barker
to make your authentic
Amon Tobin
oh my god
Chris Barker
what they should build in, okay Plug-in manufacturers if you're listening, I want my plugins to rust over time and to degrade visually like the ones in my studio that's when I know you ad that's when I know that plugins are really good when they you start getting like the kind of patina rack rash around around the things you know, that's, that's been plugged in and out too many times.
Amon Tobin
You know, it's such a transparent just like marketing bullshit is such, the soul fetches fat resides zation is that I can't say that word, but that fetish of you know that the object and I understand it, but yeah, he's a bit mad. recreating a fetish is like, No, you know, don't I mean, either get involved and go by, you know, or, yeah, it should be hard to find and it should be, you know, difficult to work with and unpredictable and all of those things, but you don't build those into a reach. Build in those inconveniences.
Chris Barker
I do not like the idea of going into somebody's studio and they open the plug in and it looks really old and go you've had it installed for a long time around.
Amon Tobin
There's a history to this.
Chris Barker
The hysteresis plug it looks worn out. One of your knobs has fallen off your Plug-in Yeah, yeah, we still works but the knobs come off
Amon Tobin
the Hendrix session. That's just like we just left it.
Chris Barker
Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, let's move on to what's the item number five now. Well,
Will Betts
Item five.
Amon Tobin
Okay, what? So I need I've got a microphone, a compressor and a desk. Seems a bit too too much. And some speakers and speakers too much compression probably already. I guess. These are going to be really boring because there's a reason why everyone chooses the same stuff because it's really good. And yeah, I'd have a pole tech EQ. I have a recreation of that in my current studio, but I'd get a real authentic old vintage one with chipped paint from my studio. I pair of them I would need a pair of them. So is that two of mine?
Will Betts
Oh, hang on. Where we're at right yeah. Yeah, sorry. Got on you there. Amen. Sorry. That's the rules.
Amon Tobin
That's so harsh.
Chris Barker
There's not as sort of a rare stereo version.
Will Betts
I'm looking for one now. We have a manly stereo pull tech EQ.
Amon Tobin
Yeah, it's a different thing is really good, but it's a different thing. No, I'd need to take up two of my slots with to pull texts I'm afraid
Will Betts
so that's but that's now it. That's everything you don't have any instruments. It's just your voice is one of the most renegade moves we've seen on the show today. There's one more item well after this luxury item, but it's can't be audio good.
Chris Barker
Oh, you mean if he goes for to pull taxes the last two out? Yeah, that is quite renegade actually. Wow. Well, that'd be close to the Matthew Herbert Matthew Herbert was on and did it in four items because he hated the idea. I think of having all the luxury stuff. So he went full punk, and rejected all so
Amon Tobin
well. That's fine. I think I could live with a luxury item of a booklet easel. And that would be all my instruments. You're not
Chris Barker
allowed a studio item is your luxury item now. That's the real
Will Betts
that's the that's the snag. Yeah. Do you want to switch out one of your pull texts for the Buchla music easel?
Amon Tobin
Well, then there's no point really having well I guess there is I could. Well, then all
Chris Barker
right. I love how happy happy go lucky this podcast always starts with people then it becomes this like trauma at the end.
Amon Tobin
Very, I'm not happy about my life choices.
Will Betts
Do you want to go back and change anything out? Do you want to revise any of your choices here?
Amon Tobin
Well, I'll tell you, what I'll do is I'll go for a shelf at EQ. Go for a Rupert Neve design shelf at EQ instead of the pole Tech because that's got a beautiful EQ on it. And it's stereo. Well Oh, no, I do need to have those. Oh, god dammit. All right. I didn't know what I'm doing, I guess. Yeah. All right. So we'll go with a manly Pat massive passive for the Q instead and that stereo. And then I can actually make some sounds with my Bucha easel and I'm set Okay.
Chris Barker
So once we get that luxury item, sorry, let's
Will Betts
talk about that. Let's talk about that music easel that. Yes, I know you threw that in the last minute. But what's your history with the music easel?
Amon Tobin
It's not that long. But I do feel that it's the thing that just seems the most endless in terms of possibilities for me for like for one singular item by itself. And I guess in this context, that's what I'm thinking about. So I think, you know, like, imagine yourself dropped on an island somewhere with a thing. And I feel like that would amuse me for the longest period of time. Is it
Will Betts
the West Coast style of synthesis that you're drawn to rather than having something a bit more traditional?
Amon Tobin
No, it's not really that. I mean, I am a fan of both West and East Coast styles. It's really I'm trying to be practical in this thing. It has a sequencer in it, it has a five step sequencer in it, which I really like, which is odd. It has just about what everything you might need in there. To be self contained, but still interesting. I mean, I think the only other thing that that does that, for me, is a sub harmonic and a Moog sub harmonic and going east coast. Just because of a sort of self encompassed odd machine that's unpredictable, actually has a really beautiful Sonic quality to it no matter what you do, honestly. But also has endless possibilities, you know, limitations to like very, very limited in its own ways. But But yeah, I think that would be my that would be my bad.
Chris Barker
I had no idea that was this West Coast East Coast modular thing to get on. It's not like big into pockets. Elaborate that. It's fine.
Amon Tobin
Yeah, I mean, they do is is a technical difference, really.
Chris Barker
So if you listen in we'll just do you a nice rundown of what you've selected and paint a picture of this fantasy forever studio and then we'll talk about your luxury item before we close up the show. So have a listen to this and see what you think. Go ahead. Well.
Will Betts
You're in a Bond villain lab with a floating room. It's completely inaccessible deep in the jungle with no windows, so it's quiet and there's no visitors. The room is designed by Thomas John Jean. Your computer is a Mac Pro. I guess the biggest one there is. Your interface is your Apollo x 16. And for your DAW you've chosen Cubase Pro 12. Your first item is a pair of Neumann K h 420 G monitor mains. Your second item is a Rupert Neve Designs 50 ata console with the shelf a DQ installed. Your third item is the Fairchild from The Beatles with a little bit of rack ration a small amount of patina on it from the years of constant use. Your fourth item is a vintage Neumann M 49. Item five is a manly massive passive EQ. And your sixth item is a buckler music easel. How does that work?
Amon Tobin
I've done more with less. That's all right
Chris Barker
well, well, you tried your best. Let's talk about the luxury item. Let's let's bring up your studio with a luxury item. Right Is it Is there anything you've you've taken from studio to studio that isn't a bit of gear or whatever? I mean, you've moved around a bit in your career and is there anything that you've you've often go found, you know, when the removal men are coming in that goes in the studio
Amon Tobin
to know or what have ya miss? I used to have a fully functioning fireplace in the studio I had up in northern San Francisco in Northern California. And I really miss it. It was terrible to have in a studio of course imagine all the dust and the sparks and whatever. But it was the best thing. I loved it so much. And I think I somehow have a friend who's one dragon engineer a fireplace, a working fireplace that would work in that room.
Chris Barker
That is a nice that's a nice choice, actually. Yeah.
Will Betts
So was that when you were around Skywalker? Is that was it that era? Yeah,
Amon Tobin
I was. Yeah, that's right. We were neighbors. Yeah.
Chris Barker
fireplace in the studio. We've never had that Ashley is quite a nice choice.
Amon Tobin
Yeah, there's probably a reason there's probably a very good reason why that doesn't turn up in studios for and I can imagine.
Chris Barker
Well, I mean, we've had 127 feet waterfalls. In the studio. Oh, right. Yeah. So I think you know, and you know, these things can get quite fairly conservative. Yeah. So it's quite it's quite a chill but it's nice and it fits in the in the Lair kind of vibe. That's the only way people would know you were there in the forest. So just see some little smoke coming out to the tops.
Amon Tobin
Just didn't go glow. Yes.
Will Betts
So what's the what kind of fireplace he told us that? Oh, Nate, is it austere? What does it look like? Is it sort of Bond villain esque.
Amon Tobin
It's not modern. It's just a big old black cast iron fireplace with with wood. It's not one of those. turn the gas on and in flames come up. It's like, you know, someone's chopped wood. They brought it in. And it's and it's really nice wood. It's like apple wood or something. So it smells great. Yeah, I've thought this through guys.
Will Betts
And so do you have the same fetish that George Lucas has about having wood with no knots in it? Why are we allowed to have knots in the wood?
Chris Barker
Is that true? Well, that's true.
Amon Tobin
What are you? What do you mean he doesn't want knots in the wood.
Will Betts
He at Skywalker Ranch, you know the main house up at the top of the ranch in the sort of veranda area. He had specially selected all the wood to not have any knots. And so it's made. It's maple. It looks like plastic. There's no not it doesn't look like wood.
Amon Tobin
They weren't winding you up. Because I remember I was going around. Someone at some point told me that the deer were animatronic. And for a minute. They have
Chris Barker
been completely stitched up by the stuff at
Vid stitched. I
Will Betts
reckon I have.
Amon Tobin
Yeah. Now you might be right. I mean, it's crazy, though. Right. So yeah, I mean, any, I believe almost anything.
Will Betts
So what other weird stuff did you get up to when you over there? Because you spent a bit of time there, didn't you?
Amon Tobin
i Well, we it was great. Because I knew some of the sound designers there and they'd they'd scream movies at their little head of private cinema in there. And it's pure. Have you have you been in there? You must have been in there in the cinema.
Will Betts
I have seen it. Yeah, it's extraordinary. Yeah, isn't it? Yeah.
Amon Tobin
It's divine. Yes. And we'd go and we'd watch movies on a Monday they'd play. You know, things like, I don't know, old movies. I watched the alien there and actually went to war to what this is crazy. But when Avatar came out, they were like, oh, yeah, this Monday is a bit special. You should definitely come around. So I went over there. And, and James Cameron and George Lucas, were there while they were talking about the film. And like, you know, it was just like, a really small room of people watching, I guess what they do is they watch the film, before it goes to be distributed, obviously. Because they work on all the sound, you know, obviously like to infinitum, and then they get to hear it in the way that they made it before it gets destroyed by all the horrific sound systems of all these, you know, these terrible theaters. So yeah, I think it's like, I sort of final like, Oh, my God, after all my hard work, I get to actually see what I've done kind of thing. It's quite nice. Yeah. It must be nice for them to do that. Yeah, amazing.
Chris Barker
Well, I think I think we're coming to the end of time now. Not the end of time. Oh, no. Time. Wow. That would be a shock, wouldn't it?
Amon Tobin
I feel I had so much more to do. This is great. A thank you both very much. Appreciate it. And I am going to struggle with these choices I've made and I might have to call you and make alterations later.
Chris Barker
Yeah, just send us an email and yeah, do some amendments, and we'll put them in the show notes for
Amon Tobin
weeks afterwards. Yeah, just keep emailing you. Hold on. Yeah. Okay.
Chris Barker
Well, all that's left to say is thank you so much Amon Tobin for joining us on the podcast It was an absolute pleasure and yeah, we loved your choices and thanks so much for giving us a little insight and before you go actually let's tell us what's what's going on for you for the rest of the year like tours music what's what's happening?
Amon Tobin
I'm I'm I'm recording recording recording I've got basically I've set up this label called no Mark records where it's a vehicle for all my for all my different musical output and and I very foolishly decided to to make a subscription thing called no mark club where where these very lovely people sign up, but then I have to make new music for them every month, and wow, wow. And it's not a chore as I'm making it sound. It's just that I really feel like I feel like it has to be really good because they really, they just, I mean, when somebody's like, it's different to when you release music and you're just like, ah, hope people like it. When you do something for people who've, like, subscribe to your thing. You really want them to have the best, you know, I mean, it's like, All right, yeah, you've invested, you've literally invested in me. So I feel this obligation, you know, to really step it up all the time. And so yeah, I'm doing that a lot. And it's, yeah, just making music man just trying to learn about sound making music. That's what I've always done.
Chris Barker
Well, so Can people subscribe now?
Amon Tobin
Oh, yeah. This is a plug for my club. Yes, people can subscribe. Scribe now, only 24 hours left. Yeah, no, they can. Yeah.
Chris Barker
So I didn't want to pile on the pressure. But yeah, subscribe.
Will Betts
Yeah, definitely do this one out at the moment as we're recording this. And that's one that you worked on as two fingers with one of the members of noisier is that? How did that come about?
Amon Tobin
Oh, yeah. Well, we we've done a lot of stuff together over the years are talking about Tice right. I am yeah, yeah. So we we've done all kinds of odd things together some some of them nothing to do with eye club music, which is really interesting to write because two fingers is known for that and so is noisy, obviously. So we we set off and did things like the thicker EP, which are just like Ambien, we call them Ambien bangers. They're just like, you know, sounds and whatever. You know, that's just not what you'd imagine. We made God, we made another record, which was just like romantic songs. And I can't even remember what we call that. But yeah, that's because well, so yeah, I mean, yeah, we've done a lot of stuff and end up for the subscription thing. I'm not doing collaborations yet. I'm really doing just my own my own music for that. But it's, it's a really wide range of everything from really experimental to, you know, songs and beats and all kinds of stuff.
Will Betts
And how do you decide which name each thing goes under? You just making music? And then you go, Oh, that's more of this kind of sound? Or that's more of this kind of sound? What? What does that look like?
Amon Tobin
Um, I always try and sort of underscore that I'm running all the like, I've got five aliases, and they all run in parallel. So I'm very conscious of that, you know, people who aren't particularly involved in what I'm doing might think, Oh, now he's doing this. And now Now he's doing and it's really not like that. So I'm doing all those things. But all at the same time, in perpetuity. Right. So two fingers has been running now for I don't know, since 2005, I think. Only child tyrant for the last four years, say with Figaro. I mean, I made the first Figaro record, like almost 10 years ago. And I just didn't release it for for years and years, I was working on it. So you know, these things just all developed in tandem with each other. And, and when I make something for, I don't know, like stone giants, for example. I have in mind what their character is because I've developed that character in quite some detail over the years. But they all Yeah, they all cross over to like it's all electronic music, right. So that's the sort of common denominator. It's all electronic music.
Will Betts
Amazing. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for your time, and it's been absolutely fascinating talking to you
Chris Barker
really has. Thank you so much again.
Amon Tobin
Alright, guys, thank you take care.
Chris Barker
Well, well, Amon Toby, how amazing was that? Some big thinking at the start as well I kind of almost felt a bit a bit gutted that we had to build a fantasy forever studio, I wanted to talk big things about abstraction at the start but amazing,
Will Betts
I feel that we really managed to race through the the show format and then actually get to the chat, which is which I rather liked.
Chris Barker
But it was great. It was like I wouldn't be able to predict actually I thought it was gonna have a lot more sort of synthesis sample that kind of gear you know, like more like sound making gear rather than sound processing gear like sound generating gear rather than, like traditional audio engineering, equipment,
Will Betts
gear, but I guess we're talking about the smallest grain you can possibly make. You can make a grain of sound with your voice and then manipulate it endlessly until it turns into something else. But yeah,
Chris Barker
yeah, yeah, exactly. And ending with a fireplace. How lovely.
Will Betts
Well, you know, I always appreciate a chat about George Lucas's wood fetish.
Chris Barker
However, Real or not really?
That is 100% a fact. A man told me
with the animatronic deer as well. Okay, it's unreal. Yeah, we'll go with that. So all that's left to say is thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next time for more adventures into studio for evidence. Goodbye. Bye bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai