German progressive and tech-house DJ superstar Thomas Gold joins us on the show. As a DJ, Thomas has performed at the world’s most famous clubs and the biggest festival stages. As a producer, he's had huge hits with remixes for Adele, and Lady Gaga and his signature anthemic sound has earned him support from the most famous DJs and labels in the world. In this episode, we find out which soft synths are the cornerstone of his sound, which limiter plug-in he rates above all others, and whether we can upsell his monitoring dreams.
German progressive and tech-house DJ superstar Thomas Gold joins us on the show. As a DJ, Thomas has performed at the world’s most famous clubs and the biggest festival stages. As a producer, he's had huge hits with remixes for Adele, and Lady Gaga and his signature anthemic sound has earned him support from the most famous DJs and labels in the world.
In this episode, we find out which soft synths are the cornerstone of his sound, which limiter plug-in he rates above all others, and whether we can upsell his monitoring dreams.
LINKS [SPOILERS AHEAD!]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxette
https://www.uaudio.com/audio-interfaces/apollo-x16.html
https://xferrecords.com/products/serum
https://aom-factory.jp/products/invisible-limiter/
https://www.waves.com/plugins/l3-ultramaximizer#introduction-to-the-l3-and-l3-ll-multimaximizers
https://barefootsound.com/products/
https://lexiconpro.com/en/products/pcm-native-reverb-plug-in-bundle
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/maag_eq4.html
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/ozone.html
Chris Barker:
I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts:
And I'm Will Betts. And this is the MusicTech, My Forever Studio podcast.
Chris Barker:
In this podcast we speak with producers, engineers, DJs and industry figureheads about their fantasy forever studio.
Will Betts:
The studio that our guests dream up will be one that they have to live with forever. And just to keep things interesting, there are some rules, totally reasonable and non arbitrary rules.
Chris Barker:
Yes. So what are these rules? Well, our guests can select a computer, a DAW and an audio interface. Those are the freebies. Then they have the complex challenge of choosing just six other bits of studio kit plus one non-studio related luxury item.
Will Betts:
But Chris there's one more rule, isn't there?
Chris Barker:
Yeah. It is very important.
Speaker 3:
No Bundles.
Chris Barker:
No Bundles is the name of the game there. Choosing a package of separate software or hardware as a single item ist verboten.
Will Betts:
Today we have the German, progressive and tech house DJ superstar, Mr. Thomas Gold.
Chris Barker:
As a DJ, Thomas has performed at the world's most famous clubs and the biggest festival stages. And as a producer, his signature huge anthemic sound has earned him support from the other big DJs and labels all over the world.
Will Betts:
That's right. And with major label remixes for the likes of Adele and Lady Gaga too, it's clear Thomas' studio prowess is up there with the best in the business.
Chris Barker:
Indeed. I can't wait to try and upsell his dreams and scream, No Bundles, at him.
Will Betts:
Exactly. This is My Forever Studio with Thomas Gold. Hello?
Thomas Gold:
Hey, what's up guys?
Will Betts:
What's up? So we're going to start building your forever studio. Do you think you're going to be able to do this Thomas? Are you going to be able to make a studio with just six items in it?
Thomas Gold:
Absolutely.
Chris Barker:
Okay. I appreciate the confidence. Okay. Well, first off, let's talk about we're talking dream studio. So if you could have a studio anywhere in the world, where would you put it?
Thomas Gold:
I think I will put it here in Berlin or maybe in Los Angeles. Los Angeles because I've been there quite a few times and I spent some time there working and travelling. And LA has this special vibe. It's very relaxed and chilled and there's a lot of industry people around and it's easy to hook up with people. I had many vocal and writing sessions over there and they just happened from one day to another. So this was really impressive to me. If you really want to do it, you can get your work done there. And there are so many possibilities and options. But still Berlin is my hometown. This is where my favourite spot in the world is. And I mean, right now it's super international anyway because there's so many people from all around the world. And even here, my network in Berlin it's more than 50% of the people I'm working with are not German. So it's super international. It's very inspiring, very motivating and the energy of the people is amazing. So it's almost getting similar to what experienced in LA. So yeah, Berlin, it is.
Chris Barker:
Quite contrasting environment.
Thomas Gold:
Definitely.
Chris Barker:
Berlin doesn't have that LA sheen. But that's what its charm is. That's why we like Berlin. Yeah. It's got a nice realness and rawness to it.
Thomas Gold:
Absolutely. And you are not limited that much. I mean, if you compare it to other cities, I've lived in almost every other big city in Germany. And Berlin is the most liberal and flexible one and people don't really, which is not always a good thing, don't really respect limitations. But you can always go the extra mile and people are willing to do that here. You can see there's so much motivation. This is something which really impresses me. Yeah. And apart from that, Berlin is just a beautiful place to be.
Chris Barker:
So if you were in Berlin, what's the kind of vibe of the studio? If it's a dream spot, money no object, where in Berlin is it? Is it at the top of a skyscraper? Is it buried underground? Is it a secret lab? What kind of studio do you like working in?
Thomas Gold:
Actually to me, it's important to have a little bit of a view to the outside. So it definitely would have windows. That's what my studio has right now as well. It's in the basement, but still we have a lot of windows here. So my dream studio will maybe be on top of a skyscraper, having a nice view over the city. And I can already imagine some buildings in Berlin.
Chris Barker:
Are we thinking Solar Lounge? Yeah. Solar Lounge in Berlin is great bar if anybody's been there. Yeah.
Thomas Gold:
Exactly.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. You could keep that DJ booth in the middle of it that moves up and down between floors as well. And use that as a vocal booth.
Thomas Gold:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I would have a two storey studio complex there with a bar upstairs, maybe a DJ lounge. Yeah. On the other floor there will be the studio area, offices and everything. Yeah. It will be a great spot.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. That sounds amazing actually. Okay. So first up we have the three items that you get for free. So these aren't part of your six because everybody needs a computer, a DAW and an audio interface. So let's start off. Are you Mac or PC or Atari? Are you going to be brave?
Thomas Gold:
I used to be Atari when I was six or seven years old, but I switched to PC for one or two years, I remember that. But then I got into Apple and since then I've been with Apple computers, iPhones and the whole setup and everything working together. I'm a fan of the Apple OS because it's just easy and intuitive. I had my experience with PCs and I never got really lucky. And for me personally, Apple is just a D-thing to work with. And also in combination with Logic it's a perfect combination. Yeah. I'm with Apple and I will ever be with that, I guess.
Chris Barker:
And specifically what do you think.... You know the score on this stuff. What are the options that we've got right now with Apple putting out?
Will Betts:
Are you going to get one of the new M1 laptops? Are you going to get a crazy big Mac Pro cheese grater with all the trimmings?
Thomas Gold:
I used to have the desktop versions of the Macs but at a certain point in my career when I started travelling so much, I needed to bring my studio with me. And since then I only have a MacBook, MacBook Pro. The one I'm having right now it's already two to three years old. So I might have to get a new one this year, as you just said.
Will Betts:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Thomas Gold:
But it's still working really nicely. It's a work horse and I haven't had any problems. I have an SSD, two terabyte inside, and I have an external SSD. So it's a great setup. I can take everything I need with me when I'm travelling. And when I get back to the studio, I just plug in the four USB-C slots and I connect everything which is in my studio here. And it just works together and you can plug and play. It's a hot switch thing. Even my interface, I can switch it off and on or plug it in and out and it still works. So it's just practical and it works.
Chris Barker:
So you think you'd stay with a laptop then? Even in your fantasy studio you'd go for a laptop for that mobility, maybe the new M1?
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. I've been thinking about it. Honestly I'm a fan of being able to just take the laptop with me and then I got everything. Otherwise, if I have a project I'm working on while I'm travelling, right now I'm not travelling, but normally I would do. And then I get back to the studio and I would have to transfer stuff and maybe I get a plug in, while I'm travelling I get some new samples. Let's say I download an audio sample library or create new stuff then I have to transfer everything to the other computer.
Thomas Gold:
And I always have to make sure that they both have absolutely the same set up so that I can open and instantly work on the projects on both machines. And having them synced, I try to do that, but a laptop... And I saw that also when I went to studio sessions in LA and wherever and I saw people working on laptops. That's perfectly fine with me. So I would definitely go for just the biggest model that you could get and use the biggest and maybe the biggest SSD you can get. But I would stick to the laptop version.
Will Betts:
SSD for life though, come on. I can't go back to anything other than SSD now. I grow weary of it. I want to throw things.
Chris Barker:
Loading times is weird, isn't it? Because we're so used to phones and everything being instant on. When another device isn't instant on it's just like, "What?" Even preheating the oven annoys me. It's like, "Come on, why is it not hot instantly? I can't wait two minutes. I want to cook now."
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. I mean, you get really... If you are in a work flow, you get a little bit, how do you say, impatient. Because even if it takes a minute to transfer a big file from an old style hard disc to the computer or vice versa, it keeps you from just keeping your flow. And sometimes you need that flow and even a minute or half a minute can disturb that flow. So for me, it's really cool. Since I got my first SSD I'm like, "Wow. This is amazing." You have an external hard disc and it has almost the same speed or it feels like having the same speed as the internal. And it doesn't make any difference and you can store files and you can transfer files in an instant and that's amazing. So for me, that was one of the biggest leaps in computer technology for me personally, for my personal work, switching from the old style hard disc to the SSD.
Chris Barker:
So, you've got your laptop. What are we thinking DAW wise? Will you be doing Logic?
Thomas Gold:
With Atari it was just gaming, Frogger and all these kinds– Dig Dug. These were my first steps, but then I got my PC, it wasn't...
Chris Barker:
What was that changes? And when you were on PC, you went to Logic on PC and then you had to go Mac when Logic changed?
Thomas Gold:
Actually I remember I started with Cubase. That was the lowest version of Cubase. No. I used Atari, the Atari 1040ST I think.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Thomas Gold:
Because at that time that was the only computer they told me which could handle MIDI without having extra gear for it. And there was this band called Roxette, you may remember them, and there was a story that all the songs and the big hits, they played them on the radio, and they told me, "Yeah, all these hits were made on in Atari." So I had to get one of those and I got it used for, I don't know, 200 euros or something like that. And I took my first steps on the Atari but it was super slow. I remember, I don't know if it was Cubase I used, maybe yeah. But then after a year or two I got a PC, a small one. Then I had Cubase and I bought that, I remember. Yeah. It was all super slow. And then, as I said, I switched to a Mac and I got Logic and I think it was the silver version or how they call it silver, gold, platinum. And I worked my way up to platinum at the end.
Thomas Gold:
So I had the full version. And for me, the workflow was just what I needed and I got into it. And now Logic is my home. I don't have to think about functions. Everything I use within Logic is without thinking. So, for me it's all about the flow. I don't have to check menus and see whatever I need to do to get this thing done or to get an idea realised. I have my own key comments and I just don't think about it. It works. I tried Cubase two, three years ago but it was too much work.
Thomas Gold:
And the same with Ableton Live. I have the full version of Ableton on my computer. I remember I used it a couple of years ago when Logic didn't have the Flex algorithm. I used it to compress and stretch vocals because the algorithm was just great. But that was the only thing I used Ableton for. I think it's a great tool. It's a great workstation, but it has a little bit of a different approach. And for me, Logic is still the one to go for now or within the past couple of years. I always thought about, "Hey, should I switch to or should I maybe add another workstation to my workflow?" But it just would take me too much time.
Chris Barker:
So your three items. You've got the computer, you've got the DAW, you've got Logic. And the final free item is the audio interface. And don't forget, this is a dream scenario where we will try and...
Speaker 5:
Upsell your dreams.
Chris Barker:
So what's the audio interface?
Speaker 5:
I think it would be... I mean, I haven't looked too much into that in the last couple of months, so I don't really know what's going on out there. Right now I'm having a Universal Audio Apollo x6 which I got a year ago and it's just amazing for what I'm doing. And I don't record 10 tracks at a time of audio, so for me this thing is just plug and play. It works perfectly with Logic. It works perfectly with my MacBook and I might upgrade to the bigger version.
Chris Barker:
You can upgrade on the forever studio. You can have whatever you want.
Will Betts:
Upgrading is permitted.
Chris Barker:
What's the best UA interface, Will, or the most expensive?
Will Betts:
I think the most expensive is the X16, isn't it?
Chris Barker:
X16.
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. I would have that one.
Chris Barker:
The Apollo x16?
Thomas Gold:
I don't even know if I would use it because this is what I use to the stereo processing in and out and maybe having a couple of vocals or one or two vocal channels.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. But this is the forever studio, who knows what will happen in forever time?
Thomas Gold:
I would definitely take the... But I would go with Universal Audio. It's just because I used to have the Antilope Orion before, the 32, and I wasn't happy with that. Because it had problems when I switched off the computer or when I had to relaunch a software and then it just disconnected itself and I had to switch off power and stuff. And this doesn't happen with the Universal Audio. And the sound is excellent. And so, I would stick to that brand.
Chris Barker:
Now we're into the six items of the forever studio. Now it gets difficult. First item. So you've got a laptop, you've got Logic and you've got your Universal Audio x16. What's item number one? Item number one.
Thomas Gold:
Item number one would be Serum as a synth.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Tell us about Serum.
Thomas Gold:
I mean, Serum is a wave table synthesiser with endless options to create sounds and it has a great sound, and has great versatility. I have a huge library with sounds. So you can definitely almost do everything with it, anything you want, any sound you want to create. It sounds pretty modern but it can sound also very luxurious, very nice and and I'm using it a lot. I use it in all my productions since it's out.
Chris Barker:
How long Serum been out for? It's one of those products where I think it's quite new and it's probably been out 10 years, right?
Thomas Gold:
I would say eight to 10 years, something like that.
Chris Barker:
Does it play an important part in most of your productions? I mean, one of my favourite tracks that you've ever done is your Adele remix. I mean, you've done some bangers in your time, Thomas, but the Adele one, the production on it was just epic. I think I told you that before when I came to your studio once. But it was so big and wide and hit so hard, which isn't easy to do when you're doing a pop production because there's already a lot of elements.
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. The interesting thing is that, the Adele remix is super distorted in the low end. And if you listen to the original master, maybe I shouldn't say that, but it was like I didn't do well there. So the mixing was really not good. But obviously it worked well in the clubs and it gave it this little maybe dirty touch in which it needed. So it was loud and aggressive. So that was a good combination of having her voice with that powerful mix and no one actually complained. I have one friend, he complained about the mix. He always complains about what I'm doing, so it's okay.
Chris Barker:
It really hit hard in the clubs. And I think maybe, like you said there, maybe that distortion, that psychoacoustic effect made it just sound even louder because it had that grit to it.
Thomas Gold:
You can call it saturation, so it may be better. But I didn't use Serum for that. I used one from Logic as far as I remember for the bass sound, for example. And the piano at that time I don't remember, but there's no Serum in there.
Chris Barker:
Nexus.
Thomas Gold:
I think for Adele I didn't use the Nexus piano. I'm using Nexus a lot right now for anything to beef up sounds. It's a good combination to have the Serum sound with Nexus, a little bit of dirty and gritty sound together with some polished and wide and effected sound. But for Adele, I used some string sounds but I don't know which library that was because I'm collecting all these Kontakt string and orchestral libraries. But at that point, I don't remember. I would have to look up.
Chris Barker:
But Serum is in there. Serum is in there in the forever studio. Because now it's a synth you can't live without, right? I mean, you're quite lucky having Logic. When people pick Logic, you get quite a good amount out of the box with Logic, don't you?
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. But that already leads me to the second one, because there's one thing which I don't like with Logic is the limiter doesn't work. Sorry to say that but I cannot get along with that. And whenever I try to do something just with the internal limiter, and even if people tell me that, for me it doesn't do the job at all. For example, I love the compressor. I love the different algorithms and the settings and how it sounds. And I'm using that a lot. And I'm using the Channel EQ a lot. But the limiter is something I would have to replace and I would do that with the Fabfilter Pro-L tool.
Will Betts:
Popular choice. Very nice. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
It's a very mainstream my forever studio right now, Thomas.
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. But why not mainstream... I'm doing mainstream music.
Chris Barker:
Fair. You need those mainstream sounds when you're remixing superstars.
Thomas Gold:
And obviously its quality. I have tried out a lot of other limiters and I started of course with Waves and I had the Invisible Limiter for...
Chris Barker:
Invisible Limiter? I've not heard of that.
Will Betts:
I don't know that.
Chris Barker:
Is this a rare piece of gear? I've not heard of this Invisible Limiter.
Will Betts:
This sounds like a rare piece. Yeah. Is it rare find? No, I've seen this. I've seen this. Sorry.
Chris Barker:
Okay. So close.
Will Betts:
And so, just tell us very quickly about the Fabfilter then. You said you didn't get on with the one in Logic. What exactly does the Fabfilter do that the one in Logic doesn't?
Thomas Gold:
First of all, it's super clean and clear and you can actually limit stuff. With the Logic limiter, if you try to limit it instantly starts distorting and it changes the sound even at low settings. I mean, my normal way of limiting is limiting up to 3dBs, 3.5. But I prepare my mix to go into the limiter already. Sometimes I use two limiters.
Will Betts:
Literally on the mix bus rather than before you get to any kind of mastering, mastering?
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. When I master my tracks, I send everything to buses, instrument buses like drums and the kicks and the bass and sounds and vocals. And I pre-limit these buses. But then, I go into the master, the Logic master channel and...
Chris Barker:
You're talking about limiting on the master channel here?
Thomas Gold:
I'm talking about my mastering chain. That's where I'm using the Pro-L tool. But even within the buses just because of the latency I use the Pro -L, the first version of the Pro-L2 because it doesn't have that latency. But still the quality for the buses is totally cool. But as I said, I wouldn't go the Logic limiter.
Chris Barker:
But in the forever studio, you're only going to have the L2. But latency shouldn't be a problem if you've got that super-duper Mac.
Thomas Gold:
Then I would put them on all the channels. I would just throw in the Waves L3 ultra. I think that's...
Will Betts:
Ultra maximizer, is it?
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Let me see how it's... I think so. Yeah. Because this is just to limit stuff without affecting the quality of the sound at all, if it's limiting up to 1dB, just take taming the peaks that's what I do. And sometimes I use the RVox for that. I'd rather compress instead of limit and just tame the peaks a little bit. But that's stuff I'm doing in the channels and in the buses, not in the mastering channel.
Chris Barker:
Fair. So we've got the Fabfilter. And because of your powerhouse Mac you'll be able to put that on every single channel I'm sure.
Speaker 6:
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Chris Barker:
Item number three now. Item number three, you need some speakers or some headphones, Thomas. Because you can't hear any of this limiting.
Thomas Gold:
I would go for Barefoot speakers.
Will Betts:
The MicroMains?
Chris Barker:
Nice.
Thomas Gold:
That's what I'm having right now in front of me here.
Chris Barker:
It feels like there's an opportunity to...
Speaker 5:
Upsell your dreams.
Thomas Gold:
Yes, you're right. What's the bigger ones?
Will Betts:
You have the Masterstack 12. That one is basically floor to ceiling. It's kind of bundly but we will allow it because it's a speaker system. This is about six or seven foot tall. It's got passive radiators on the two main units. And then you've got something like seven, I'm counting, there's six drivers on the front. It's a lot. There's a lot going on there.
Chris Barker:
That sounds fine.
Will Betts:
It's used by.... It's in Studio La Fabrique.
Chris Barker:
Wow.
Will Betts:
And it's in Fairfax Recordings. They used to be Sound City.
Thomas Gold:
I mean, that would be nice. I saw it's like 60 grand. So would make sense. But you can try before you buy it. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. I mean, if they're in the range on there they're going to be like what you're used to in your studio. So you've got the Micromains there.
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. And I have the ATCs, the 150... Yeah, the big ones. But honestly I prefer the Barefoot for the sound, for the directness and for how punchy and dry they sound. And that will be my first choice.
Chris Barker:
So are we going to upsell your dreams and get the mega Barefoot so you're going to stick with the Micromains?
Thomas Gold:
The Masterstack, of course.
Speaker 5:
Upsell your dreams.
Chris Barker:
The way you said it, the Masterstack of course. Of course we've got the Masterstack. So now you know the vibe of this forever studio. We can go big. Why not? Did you discover the Barefoots when you were in LA by any chance? Because I remember there was a certain period when every time I went to LA, every studio started getting Barefoot. So it felt like in the UK we had the Focal and the Events as kind of the popular pro-choice and then it switched to Barefoot's after the LA.
Thomas Gold:
I used to have a pair of Events, but that's 12, 15 years ago, the smaller ones. They were kind of the cheap solution. And then I upgraded to the Adams, then I had some Genelacs. The Focal, I saw them a lot in studios. But when I went... I remember I went to a local music store and I listened to the Focals and they didn't just fit for my ears. And as you said, you're right, when I was in the LA, I of course I saw a lot of speakers in different studios and I heard a lot about Barefoot and I read a lot about it and I got super interested in them. And then yeah I just got them and I had a distributor here in Germany. He said you can test them. You can get them for, I don't know, two or four weeks.
Chris Barker:
That's how they get you, isn't it? The distributors with monitors, they're like drug dealers. They go, "No, just have them for a few weeks. See you." And then you're like, "I can't go back."
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. That's exactly what happened. Yeah. But they're not cheap. And I was totally blown away off the sound and it was better than anything I had before and they just fit for my ear. So I could really feel how I could work with them without even getting used to them. Normally it takes a year or two to get used to speakers, but this happened really quickly here. And yeah, for me, best choice ever for my ears. And I know that speakers have to fit to how you listen to stuff, to your frequency range of your ears. And I found my speaker. So I would go with Barefoot.
Will Betts:
Here's a question as well. You're talking about how well they translate to radio and how well they translate to club systems. Are you ever using that freaky little switch that turns off drivers that gives you the different sound profiles?
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. I got it here. It's like you just put it into the signal chain of the speakers. It comes with the speakers and you can actually emulate to, it says, old school, but that means the Yamaha NS-10M.
Chris Barker:
It's a little tiny round box with four options on it.
Thomas Gold:
So you have the four options. One of them is just a flat option. Then you have a high option, which emulates a loudness like the bathtub and frequency range. You've got a little bit more high end, more low end. So it makes it more adapted to your ears. And then you have an emulation of the Yamaha NS-10M. And then you have the Cubes. It's called Cubes, the Auratone. And I used to have the Auratones here but since I got the Barefoot I could sell them on eBay.
Chris Barker:
So how does that work, Will? Is that DSP or are you actually switching off bits of the speaker?
Will Betts:
I always thought you were switching off bits of the speaker, but if it just sits between your output and the...
Chris Barker:
It must be a digital profile and algorithm, right?
Will Betts:
Yeah. It's got to be.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Very cool.
Thomas Gold:
Process sound and emulates the speaker. But it works well. It really... I don't know.... I didn't compare it to the original Yamaha NS-10, but the feeling is the same. Absolutely.
Chris Barker:
So what we are on now? Item number...
Will Betts:
Number four. One to four.
Chris Barker:
Item number four.
Will Betts:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Thomas Gold:
So, I would not go for headphones because I could work without headphones. Only if we talk about travelling then of course I would need headphones.
Will Betts:
I think if you're travelling you just use whatever headphones you're wearing for listening to music, right?
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
It's a bit of a get-out we've had to allow because of...
Thomas Gold:
But for my production studio, for my dream studio, if I only had six items I would not go for headphones. So item number four would be a high quality reverb, and I would go for the Lexicon.
Will Betts:
Which one?
Chris Barker:
Lexicon, are you talking hardware?
Thomas Gold:
I mean, we could go with the 480-L, of course. But since I'd rather have a nice workflow, I would go for the softer version.
Will Betts:
Interesting.
Thomas Gold:
I mean, I use a lot of the Valhalla stuff, but as you said, we can upscale. And I have the Lexicon bundle as well. I'm using it only for when I want to work on more complex reverbs and stuff. But I use it a lot for rooms as well for drums because it sounds... The quality is really good. So I would pick Lexicon Reverb.
Chris Barker:
Is that Waves or UA or is it a Lexicon product?
Thomas Gold:
It's a Lexicon product.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Thomas Gold:
It's a software. Actually, they have a bundle.
Chris Barker:
Ohhhh.
SFX:
No Bundles.
Chris Barker:
No bundles.
Will Betts:
No bundles. You got to pick one.
Thomas Gold:
I would go for maybe even for the Plate, one of the vintage Plates. I would use the Lexicon Hall. That's the one. It's kind of flexible. And I tried the Altiverb stuff stuff. It's super nice. It's cool as well. But for my workflow and for the quality of sound I want to achieve, that will be the one.
Chris Barker:
I guess reverb is mega important especially when you're making the more progressive stuff and when you're working a lot with lush sounds and trying to make those big, wide spaces and big, wide breakdowns and adding that drama of reverb.
Thomas Gold:
The use of reverbs has changed within the past like 10-20 years. In the 80s, they were using loads and tonnes of reverbs and now it's only about using as much reverb as you just can't hear or feel it. If you listen to pop or radio music, they use reverbs and rooms but very subtle. So, it's not about like you cannot actually hear it, you can rather feel it and of course if you go for some special productions where they overly use it that's another thing. But for vocals it's rather common now to be as subtle as possible to give it that space, but not drawn it in reverb.
Will Betts:
How much of that do you think is to do with people listening more on headphones? Because obviously you perceive reverb as being higher in the mix when you're listening to headphones versus on speakers?
Chris Barker:
Because I heard that's all about the Billy Eilish productions in terms of, the reason it worked so well is when you listen to those tracks on headphones, it's so close, everything's so close and so dry that it has that ASMR kind of vibe to it. Where it feels like she's whispering in your ear or behind your head or just above you. And those techniques, not just on the voice, but on lots of things in the mix, maybe really resonated with the younger people.
Thomas Gold:
There's still a lot of, let's say vice in my mind or whatever. Where the reverb is one of the important parts of the whole production, that's a different story. But normally as you said, I think everything's gone drier. Everything's become more in your face, closer to your ears. That's just modern sound how drums become more dry, more punchy and because now the mixing techniques are there and we have high quality reverbs. Even short reverbs don't sound like crap like in the 80s. And now you might use reverb not to make something better, as maybe was the case 20-30 years ago when the sounds and streams we're not as good as they are today.
Thomas Gold:
And the vocal production techniques are way better, so you don't need additional reverb to really bring out the shyness, the crispiness in a vocal or in a sound. And I also think that it's just like the trend for a simplicity in a production. The less, the better and the dryer the better. And of course it makes mixing easier for mixing engineers as well. The less reverb you have, the drier you mix, the more in your face and louder you can get it maybe [crosstalk 00:33:25].
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Thomas Gold:
A little bit part of the loudness war to get the tracks more louder in the radio.
Chris Barker:
That's true. That's very true, isn't it like if you clog, don't clog the mix as much with all of those extra things like reverbs and delays and all of that. You can make individual elements hit a lot harder. So we go for the Lexicon.
Will Betts:
Whole algorithm, although technically you can only buy it as part of a bundle. So what we'll do, is we'll let you have the bundle and then we'll come around and we'll delete all the other plugins from the bundle except that one.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. So you buy it as a bundle but we'll come around on for the launch party of your studio, we'll come around and delete the extra ones.
Will Betts:
Delete them.
Chris Barker:
That's a good plan, Will.
Will Betts:
Thanks.
Chris Barker:
Sabotage. My forever studio is sabotaged.
Will Betts:
Before we get to five, it does raise an interesting question about vocal production though. Because the way that the vocal sound in your productions always super clean. What is it about the way that you're capturing or the way that you're processing vocals to be able to get that shiny record sound?
Thomas Gold:
Not all of my vocals are produced by myself. So, I would rather talk about how I process them and for me, it's... First of all, I look at the character of the vocal of the voice. What does it sound like? Is it a warm vocal? Is it a high vocal? A female vocal which doesn't need low end? So, what kind of vibe do I want to create? And I love warm vocals and I love to have vocals that have a warm mid range. And sometimes my first step would be to clean up the vocal and put it into that direction where I want to have it. Let's say I cut of course the low end but then I go further and I try to find frequencies of a vocal which I don't like very often, there are some like nasal–.
Will Betts:
Resonances.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, nasal tones.
Thomas Gold:
Nasal tones in there, and I go through the frequency spectrum and of course I do the peak thing with the EQ and cranking it up and then putting it down and then this is... I mean, it's like surgery, but also it's a little bit of cosmetic. I use narrow EQ curves and wide EQ curves shaping the vocal. And sometimes I just want to have it cleaner and more crispy, so I had a lot of high-end and shininess and crispness. And I'm using for example, one of my go to plugins, that is the Maag EQ.
Will Betts:
Air EQ, yeah.
Thomas Gold:
And I start with one of the presets and then I take it from there, which very often gives me a nice result. But still if I have harsh frequencies or if there's a part of the vocal where she or he seems like a certain word, I don't like it, I go into that and then I try to fix it as well to take down the harsh frequencies and level everything out. And I do a lot of compression on vocals-
Will Betts:
Just hang on. So, you literally go in on a single word and you process?
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. If I don't want to destroy the whole vocal line, I would rather take a part of that and let's say it's the bridge or the pre chorus, and just where she goes again, there and then the stare doesn't does work well, I cut it out, copy it to another track and I put the plug in the EQ processing only on that part. So it wouldn't affect the rest of the track. And I'm using a lot of dynamic cueing with the Fabfilter for example, where you're just rather reacts to the audio signal.
Chris Barker:
I think that's an often overlooked production process from people that are starting out or... Not even starting out but doing quite well on their productions but not getting that professional vocal sound, even if it's quite a well recorded vocal. I think people are often surprised if you open up like a pro mainstream project or any big vocal production, just the amount of editing on the vocals. You say pulling out words, tiny little bits of double tracking, the amount of rephrasing and just the amount of vocal tracks, it's very rare that you open a major production and the vocal is just one mono track with some reverb and delay on it, like you might be doing in your own productions at home. It will be really sliced and spliced. I remember seeing stone bridges mixes and a single vocal line being spread out onto like 24 tracks with different EQ settings and different processes depending on the word and where it was in the song just as you were describing. And it makes you go "Oh, that's why it sounds little better than my mixes." Because you're going right down onto a word processing level.
Will Betts:
Not word processing quite. But like...
Chris Barker:
No, not word processing. You know what I mean? Going down-
Will Betts:
Yeah you're right.
Chris Barker:
... to that fine surgical EQ on a single syllable even sometimes that just has that frequency that annoys you and you just have to pull it out and put it on a separate track and process it all differently. So with that in mind, we're in item number five. Are you going to need a surgical EQ on you, or do you use the Logic one? Are you happy with the Logic ones?
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. I mean, if I only have to pick six items, I'm thinking of what would I really need?
Chris Barker:
It gets tricky now. It gets tricky, two more left.
Thomas Gold:
So, I would go with the internal, the channel EQ.
Chris Barker:
That was difficult, I could see you wrestling with that. We're sticking with the Logic EQ, which gives you gives you two more items still.
Thomas Gold:
Yeah, so I would go with the Nexus synth.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Thomas Gold:
Because it's just like another workhorse and you are so flexible with the sound and it makes your production instantly sound great and big. And I could achieve that sound also with other synthesisers, but then I would have to use a lot of delays, EQs, plugins. And even the reverb of the new Nexus is really cool. And sometimes in a production is totally fine with the amazing amount of presets and bass sounds and pianos. I would rather go maybe, with a Kontakt library for pianos and one for strings, but as I only can pick two anymore, I have to find a solution where I get the most, I say bang for the buck, yeah.
Thomas Gold:
And this is versatile and it's a total contrast to Serum but as I've said before, the combination of both gives you a super broad range of sounds and I don't like the ES2 from Logic, for example, it's really not... I don't use it anymore, I use the ES1 but only for the simple stuff for analogue sound things and the other synthesisers you get with Logic. I mean, the strings are cool now and the organist cool but if you want to go for more synthy stuff and modern sounding stuff, I would definitely go for the for Nexus. I mean another alternative in depth range will be the Avenger. And I'm using both, for example. But the Avenger is a little bit slower, it's bigger, it's more like... I think you can even do more with it but, for my workflow and for what I want to achieve and for the fun of playing around, I would go with Nexus.
Chris Barker:
When did Nexus come out? That has got to be like 2005 or 2006. It was very early on, wasn't it? Because when it came out, it became the default piano sound for loads of those big early EDM anthems before EDM was even coined really.
Thomas Gold:
It's pretty old and I know many people are not talking good about it but it obviously is still like... And I know that many high end producers use it and they might just not say but...
Chris Barker:
I mean, a lot of when you go through the sounds in Nexus, I mean, I haven't used it for a long time to be fair, but I remember going through it and every sound just sounds like a record straight away. It's doesn't mean that that's how you should use them, but they're just ready to go like really high quality and then obviously when you tweak them, you can get them to an insane sort of... Yeah, they're just brilliant.
Thomas Gold:
Sometimes you have to just switch off the effects but, it can be a source of inspiration as well. You want to find a good lead melody for a progressive house or for whatever house track and you have to... If you get some sound which already sounds great by playing it with one finger like the note the melody, and it's already processed. You just put in your Nexus and step through the sounds and all of these sounds already sound like a record as you said.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Thomas Gold:
It makes it way easier to find stuff quickly. Sometimes you don't need that. And sometimes I find my melodies playing a piano sound.bBut it depends. Sometimes you just want to have these big chord sounds or ravy sounds or EDM-ish sounds or you need that dirty bass, which is already processed and you just played. And Nexus, they copy a lot from stuff which has already been successful out there. So you get a lot of stuff which is proven to work but of course, it's not... You should not just use it and copy paste it, but it gives you a starting point and then you can develop it from that point.
Chris Barker:
They are still releasing expansion packs for it and it's still yeah, it's still moving on, isn't it?
Thomas Gold:
I spoke to the guys, I spoke to Manuel two weeks ago, because he's going to be supporting us with one of my projects. And yeah, I mean, they're still working heavily on it, even though they brought out the Avenger which is an alternative to Nexus. But still Nexus is, for many people they just... And even if I talk to young producers, they always told me, "I want to get Nexus. I'm saving my money to get it and because I just have to have it."
Will Betts:
I mean, it is amazing that if you want the complete version of Nexus is four grand.
Chris Barker:
Oh, what?
Will Betts:
Yeah, all the expansions you get 20,000 presets, and 150 gigs of 150 expansion, it is pretty nuts. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
20,000 presets, that's a Saturday afternoon I'm staying in and I'm going to go through the Nexus presets and highlight my favourites. So we're onto the final item.
Will Betts:
Yeah. For your final item, is it going to be anything in the realm of compression? Because you didn't quite finish what happens next in your vocal chain? Or is it going to be something else?
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking of microphone or an external analogue synthesiser or software so when I look at my production process, compression would be covered with Logic. Because I think that I don't need an external compressor. But I mean, can create a sound. Serum, Nexus and the internal ones and I have delay. I use a stereo delay from Logic a lot that is fine. Reverb, okay, got it. Then I have the limiter, compression, limiter and EQ, we've talked about that. I mean, if it comes to mastering, I would... I'm thinking of Ozone because the full package you know. It's not a bundle!
Will Betts:
That's not a bundle, it's fine.
Chris Barker:
We've allowed that again, it's a popular choice. Have you got the latest one they are working on? Is it nine, we on Ozone 9?
Thomas Gold:
I have nine advanced, yeah. And I'm really happy with it. I wasn't too happy with seven and eight was okay for me but nine really, it's there now, I think. and I can't wait for 10. The thing is, you have your stereo widening tool, you have a bunch of cool EQs actually, so we got the EQs there. I mean, you have the compressors and you have vintage and on analogue emulations but you also have the mastering sections, the low end focus thing, which I really like sometimes it just makes a difference to use that even at 0.5 dB, it can just give you a mix where it needed and then the loudness maximizer section. Yeah, I'm using that a lot together with that limiter. I'm just thinking of if there's anything else.
Will Betts:
Yeah, I mean, big synthesiser or a nice microphone both sound pretty interesting choices at this point.
Thomas Gold:
Yeah, microphone, I would say no, because I can get my vocals from other people and people would have to bring their own mics so that's it.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Fair enough. Yeah, outsource it.
Will Betts:
That was fair.
Thomas Gold:
For my daily working process, I wouldn't need that microphone. So I'm really thinking of, how do I create most of my work and what would I need for that?
Chris Barker:
So we're all in the box pretty much. So you could... I mean, you're in a Berlin skyscraper but you could be literally on a desert island with this setup. You can be anywhere, coffee shop studio.
Thomas Gold:
That's what I thought of. I didn't include any outboards that would come later in the list of course, like a nice – mt Moog synth here.
Chris Barker:
There's no more later Thomas, there's no more later This is forever six items forever. This is your last one.
Thomas Gold:
Then I would... That would be it.
Chris Barker:
Nice.
Will Betts:
So, you are going with Ozone then for number six, is it?
Thomas Gold:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Ozone.
Will Betts:
Alright.
Thomas Gold:
Effects, distortion, saturation is all good with the new fit plug in from Logic. It's really cool, it works like... It's the CamelCrusher within Logic so it's really cool and you have a lot of other stuff in Logic which gives you a variety of processing your sound mangling it and destroying it. So yeah, I think that will be it.
Chris Barker:
So Will, do you want to give us the full rundown? Well, let's set the scene for your forever studio now. You're ready Thomas. We're going to describe this forever studio and then we'll talk about one final luxury item that isn't studio gear related, okay? So, Will set the scene.
Will Betts:
Okay. We're in Berlin, in a skyscraper in a two floor bar/studio. The computer is a MacBook Pro, either side of that MacBook Pro, you have your Barefoot Masterstack12. I misspoke earlier, these are only five foot tall, not seven. Your interface is an Apollo Eight XP. I changed it up for you so you've got preamps just in case. Your DAW is Logic Pro X. Your instruments are extra records Serum, which was released in, can you guess guys? I looked it up?
Chris Barker:
2009.
Will Betts:
14. Yeah. Your other instrument is Nexus 3. But the first version. When was that released? You were you're pretty close earlier, Chris.
Chris Barker:
2004.
Will Betts:
No, not that close.
Chris Barker:
2006.
Will Betts:
No.
Chris Barker:
2007.
Will Betts:
Yeah. There we go. That does the charm. Okay. You've chosen for your plugins, the Fabfilter Pro-L2, the Lexicon whole plugin, just that one, you only allowed that one and Ozone 9 Advanced with all of its EQs, compressors, limiters, low end focus and all that fun stuff. That's the lot. How does that sound Thomas?
Thomas Gold:
Sounds pretty cool and decent to me, I can work with that.
Chris Barker:
So, let's round off this fantasy for every studio with the final item which is a luxury item. So not a piece of studio gear, but something you'd love to have in the studio. Maybe something you've taken to every single studio you've ever been to. Something that you'd love. Yeah, I can see. For the listeners, Thomas is looking around his studio now see if there's anything. But anything that you would love in there, we've had some random choices.
Thomas Gold:
One thing is a photo of my family.
Chris Barker:
You can get things like that, photos of your family. Your family will be with you.
Thomas Gold:
I mean, we're not sort of... Yeah, this isn't meant to be cruel, it is supposed to be nice.
Chris Barker:
We're not monsters.
Thomas Gold:
I have my fitness gear here. My workbench and my pull up bar and that stuff, it's in the other room.
Chris Barker:
There we go, a home gym.
Thomas Gold:
Home gym. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Home gym. You can have a three level apartment where it's one level, it's just extended by one level.
Chris Barker:
Yes.
Speaker 5:
Upsell your dream.
Will Betts:
Yeah. So I would have my home gym there, my complete home gym.
Chris Barker:
That's actually a good luxury item. But it's a bit healthier than some of the others we've had.
Will Betts:
It's not the slush puppy machine, is it?
Chris Barker:
Usually we have coffee machines or slush puppy machines or chefs or yeah. Or beds, revolving beds we've had as well.
Thomas Gold:
A coffee machine would also be an item but I could... I'd rather go for the gym.
Chris Barker:
That's very good. Especially as we're all pretty much still in lockdown. It feels like a gym, is probably a good idea. Yeah, rather than just creating more anxiety with caffeine. Okay, well, that takes us to the end of the My Forever Studio podcast. Thank you so much Thomas, for joining us. It's been a real pleasure. And we will leave you to go back through your 20,000 Nexus presets. I know that's what you've got planned for the rest of the day, just 15,000 to go. I think it is now.
Thomas Gold:
I know.
Chris Barker:
What a week it's going to be? What a crazy week in lockdown it's going to be for Thomas Gold and his Nexus preset bundle?
Thomas Gold:
Yeah. I mean, I'm happy about the lockdown now. So you know, with all these presets, you have to be grateful.
Chris Barker:
Thank you so much. We'll speak to you soon. Wonderful.
Will Betts:
Thank you, Thomas.
Thomas Gold:
Was my pleasure. Take care guys and speak soon.
Chris Barker:
Okay, well, thanks again to Thomas for dialling in and talking with us. You might have noticed dialling in. We had sort of video call quality there due to a few technical difficulties but we will be back to full HD quality next week. So thanks for bearing with us.
Will Betts:
Yes. Thank you and fine guest, nevertheless, in Thomas gold there. And apart from some ridiculous speakers, Chris a relatively attainable selection.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, not too bad. But we did up sell some dreams, which is always nice.
Will Betts:
Love that. Yes. Remember, if you are a fan though of the MusicTech, My Forever Studio podcast, make sure you subscribe. If you love us upselling dreams and blaring that busted our horn. Use your favourite podcasting app and maybe even drop us a five star rating when you are available to do so.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, we do read every review. And if you want to contact us or get your suggestions in the guests, just email us at editors@musictech.net.
Will Betts:
Indeed, indeed. Next week, we have the incredible electronic music producer and performer and Youtuber, Rachel K Collier, who is going to be joining us from her studio in Wales.
Chris Barker:
Yes. It's going to be another fun show.
Will Betts:
It sure is. So we will catch you next time for another journey into studio forever-dom,
Chris Barker:
Good bye.