In a special festive episode, we’re joined by certified pop star and household name Gary Barlow, and his trusted studio collaborator Ryan Carline. This time, discover how Gary got the 80s synth sounds for his Eddie The Eagle film-inspired record, why the pair prefer speakers that are fun rather than accurate, and learn which dark-horse product makes it onto their Christmas list.
Chris Barker:
I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts:
And I'm Will Betts, and this is the MusicTech My Forever Studio Podcast, Christmas special.
Chris Barker:
Christmas special, woo. In this podcast, we speak with producers, DJs, and today for our Christmas special, bonafide pop stars about their fantasy forever studio.
Will Betts:
However, there are strict laws in fantasy foreverland, and it is a studio our guests will have to live with forever.
Chris Barker:
That's right. Our guests can select a computer, a DAW, an audio interface, then they can only choose six other bits of studio kit, plus one luxury item.
Will Betts:
But Chris, what if they want a selection of, say, plugins combined into a single package?
Chris Barker:
Actually, Will, as it's the Christmas special, I've managed to get a very special guest to record us a no bundles alert. Do you want to hear it?
Santa:
Ho, ho, ho. Merry Christmas. There's no bundles.
Will Betts:
Who's that?
Chris Barker:
It's Christmas Yorkshire Gandalf. No, it's Santa.
Will Betts:
Oh, it's Santa.
Chris Barker:
We got Santa to record our alert. So, very special. Very special.
Will Betts:
Very special. This time we're joined by certified pop star and household name, Gary Barlow, and his trusted studio engineer, Ryan Carline.
Chris Barker:
Gary's fifth studio album, Music Played by Humans, has recently been released, and you'd have had to been living under a rock for the past 25 years not to have heard any of the multitude of hits that Gary has created.
Will Betts:
Meanwhile, Ryan has been Gary's technical co-pilot since 2008, though they've been working together for nearly 20 years. Based out of True North studios, he's worked alongside international acts such as Donny Osmond, Delta Goodrem, and, of course, Take That.
Chris Barker:
I can't wait to hear the picks for this imaginary recording space. This is My Forever Studio Christmas Special with Gary Barlow and Ryan Carline. Welcome.
Will Betts:
Welcome.
Gary Barlow:
Hi, guys. Hi.
Chris Barker:
Hello, thanks for joining us. So-
Gary Barlow:
Thank you. Can I just point a couple of things out here? Will, you sound like you're coming through my H3000 with about four cents either way. It's very chorusy, but I thought you were trying to test us by doing that. I thought you were going to say, "What effects unit have I got on my vocal chain here?" And that's what we were going to have to guess.
Will Betts:
You have passed the test. I think I might've had a monitoring path still going, so is that any better-
Gary Barlow:
There you go.
Will Betts:
... for you, Gary?
Ryan Carline:
Yeah, there he is.
Gary Barlow:
That's much better.
Will Betts:
Beautiful.
Gary Barlow:
Much better. He's bypassed the H3000 now. That's much better.
Chris Barker:
Lovely stuff. We're talking about Forever Dream Studios here and, I mean, first off, before we get into it, let's just talk about Music Played by Humans because it seems like you've definitely done that on purpose. Are you getting tired of the computer-based world?
Gary Barlow:
Do you know what? Not at all. And in fact, the computer-based worlds played a massive part in this, because one of the issues that we had, we did a few initial recordings, and it's been a real journey of exploration, this has. When we did our initial recordings, I'd never really put on record ever in the past big groups of players playing together. So that was the initial core idea, “Let's get these massive sections together and let's record it and see what happens.” Now, this is all original material, so we're not doing cover versions. So we recorded these big sessions and it was extremely exciting in the room. And you get them back to the studio and you realise suddenly, “We could have done these recordings in 1950.” And so why are we doing these recordings and how do we make them work in today's world of... I mean, it's so heavily computer-based music nowadays. So do we just accept that we're going to sound dated or do we try and push forward?
Gary Barlow:
And so then this journey started of deconstructing these recordings. So now the computer's incredibly important. And so what happened was we ended up... the route to our personal success in this project was, yes, getting the performances, definitely that was paramount, but then deconstructing what the shape of those orchestras are. And quite often what led us to putting it into 2020 was getting rid of the rhythm sections, or putting them on a grid so we could add samples to them, so Ryan could really get the base level. It was an organisational process, and involved a few other people. We got some drum programmers in. We had James Wiltshire from F9 who did some drum programming for it. That's it. Yeah. I mean, he really understands dance music. And the thing is with a lot of this music we were recording... Sorry, this is the longest answer to a very short question, but I need to just explain myself. So with a lot of the swing music we put on this record, that was the first time people danced to music, that was. So it was really interesting for James as well to go, “Right, let's get to the heart of this and let's choose the samples carefully, and let's choose the quantize carefully.” And so to now answer what you originally asked, the computer was really important to the creation of these songs.
Chris Barker:
So the album could be called Music Played by Humans Finished on a Computer, in brackets.
Gary Barlow:
By Humans.
Chris Barker:
By Humans again. Yeah, fine, fine, fine. Fine, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
Yes.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Well, let's dig deep into the My Forever Studio Podcast. So the first thing we ask is where would you have the studio, both of you? Do you both like the same type of environment, studio environments? Because studios, I mean, yours is very light and bright there, Gary, but Ryan's looks like a little bit of a dungeon.
Will Betts:
In a nice way.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. Well, we both love being out in LA in the sunshine, in particular Santa Monica and Malibu. So something out there with the opposite of what I've got right now, because the doors are closed, actually. Loads of light, big airy space.
Chris Barker:
So you're the third guests to pick this location-
Ryan Carline:
Oh, right.
Chris Barker:
... almost in a row. People basically keep trying to kick Rick Rubin out of his studio up there.
Ryan Carline:
The Shangri-La. Yeah. We've been there. It's so nice.
Chris Barker:
So is this another podcast where Rick Rubin's going to get evicted? Is that your dream location and space?
Ryan Carline:
Well, look, if we could rebuild the big room at Real World, but out there in Malibu, that would be the dream. Big open space.
Chris Barker:
What we've got? Real World's got the lake. We've got the-
Ryan Carline:
But we'd have the ocean view, I think-
Chris Barker:
Yes.
Ryan Carline:
... wouldn't we, Gaz?
Gary Barlow:
I think so. I think so. It's funny how I think we can all appreciate... I was in the other day, I'm not going to mention it because it's a bit of a diss, this is, but I was in a studio the other day, and I was doing some filming and the crew said, “Wow. God, it's a funny pl...” I said, “No, this is how studios used to be. This is like a '70s, '80s studio.” Just darkness everywhere, no windows, everything dark blue or grey. I was like, “This is why studios are going out of business is because no one wants these rooms anymore.” And we've all had a slice, especially in the last year, of being at home and feeling like you're not going into an alien environment when you go into a studio. It shouldn't feel like that.
Gary Barlow:
So when Ryan talks about the light, the one thing we've done, and I think it's possibly because of me, is that... Ryan can record on an aeroplane. He works wherever he is. However, as a songwriter, as someone who has to come up with the core of a project we're starting or a reason to do something, I need to be inspired. And I always find, I don't know why this is, but we land in LA and we hit the ground and we do in 10 days what we could do in three months. We just find this energy that comes from that city, and it's possibly the light-
Will Betts:
Wow.
Gary Barlow:
... it's possibly the other people who are there. There's a lot of like-minded people like us who we bump into in restaurants. It's a real music community.
Chris Barker:
Getting the boring bits of gear out of the way, the three bits. What's your DAW preference? You can only have one. Are you a Pro Tools guys, or Logic, Ableton?
Gary Barlow:
Well, we're going to need to fight over this now, aren't we? Because-
Ryan Carline:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
This is what we want.
Ryan Carline:
I started in Logic. Gary's fully Logic. And now I spend a lot of my time, most of my time, probably in Pro Tools. But if I can only pick one, it probably would be Logic. Now, there's a few reasons behind that. T
Chris Barker:
Go on, what are those reasons? I mean-
Ryan Carline:
Well, a, Gary does all of his writing in Logic, so there's that thing. And also it's come so far now. I used to use Logic back in the TDM days, when we had the TDM cards and we had Audiosuite plugins in Logic, like what Pro Tools has got. But now we've got that feature even in Logic with the selection based processing. So I think it's just it can do everything, it's got all of the great instruments it comes with, great suite of effects. It's got the Flex Time. Yeah. I think if I could only pick one, it would be Logic, actually.
Chris Barker:
That's cool. Gary, you win there then, you win. No fighting. in needed.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Good. And audio interface as well then for this setup. What's the forever audio interface?
Ryan Carline:
Shall we go Apollo, Gaz?
Gary Barlow:
Well, yeah, I think we've got to. Because all my studios have... I mean, it's the one thing that's the same in each one. So I basically take a laptop between my studio so, and my four SSD cards, all four terabytes each. I've got a massive sample library. But the Apollo is becoming really important. Not just the plugins, although we do use a lot of UAD plugins, but just as an environment you know, trusted, you know can plug a mic, you don't have to do too much messing around and you've got a great sound.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. I mean, don't forget obviously with the no bundles rule, you don't get all the plugins, you only get the ones that come with the Apollo. So you don't get the whole suite. You'd have to get those plugins individually as part of your other six items, which we're going to get to now.
Will Betts:
Yeah. We haven't yet spoken about the computer. I presume you're going Mac. You've got to go Mac if you're doing Logic. But...
Gary Barlow:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So it's a Mac and not a PC. I mean, it's quite rare we have a PC, but we do occasionally.
Gary Barlow:
It's movie people, isn't it, who have the PCs.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Okay. So item number one, we're going to count down the six. So item number one, tell us what your first choice is for the studio. I guess you're going to need some headphones or some speakers maybe.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. We've got the Focal SM9s in every room, so probably go for those because we're so used to them.
Chris Barker:
And they're the ones where you can switch off side of them?
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. There's a focus mode, so you can turn them into basically NS-10s, if you want to.
Chris Barker:
Shall we do the NS-10 chat, love or hate the NS-10? Both of you which-
Ryan Carline:
We actually don't use NS-10s. Yeah. We've just got so used to doing everything on these. And I've got ProAcs at home, the Studio 100s, which I love. And when it comes to checking on other speakers, I've got the Auratones here, but I've also got this nice bit of software that I use called Audreio, which... it lets you stream to your iOS device, so you can use your phone or iPad or laptop as a speaker.
Chris Barker:
Very important as well now, I guess-
Ryan Carline:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
... to check in all of those.
Ryan Carline:
That's really handy.
Chris Barker:
That's interesting. We found on the podcast the NS-10s have finally fallen out of favour. People have finally stopped feeling like they need them in every studio. And even pro studios, I mean, do you find you go in there now and they finally don't have a set of NS-10s?
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. We don't see them as often. But, if they are there, I will use them.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Ryan Carline:
But it's.... yeah. It's definitely not a preference for me.
Gary Barlow:
I think the thing with any of these things, whenever we're... Listen, all, just so you know, this chat we're having today is that wherever we're in the studio or we go out for like Christmas lunch, we had yesterday, it was just, this is all we ever talk about, stuff like this. So this is... but-
Will Betts:
Perfect.
Gary Barlow:
... when you're talking about things like speakers, you have to go back a step and go, “90% of our times in studios, we're not mixing. What we're doing is we're creating energy. We're getting performances. We're trying to find inspiration to finish songs or write songs.” And, to me, you want a really flattering pair of speakers, you want speakers that are going to make you excited about what you're doing. Now the point where you start getting to the bit where you're going to put it out to the world, then you've got to have all these gadgets, whether they're phones or you're checking them on the car stereo, then start getting serious and scientific about it. But, for that all the 90% of the time, put up something, just fill the room with amazing speakers that's going to get you to where you want to get to.
Chris Barker:
So I guess, as you've only got... well, I mean, you could have more sets of speakers as your other items, but, as you're choosing Focals, you get a bit of both from them then.
Gary Barlow:
Well, there's one other thing with those Focals, if you ever had an intruder in the studio, you could throw one of these things at it and the intruder would be eliminated from any form of burglary-
Chris Barker:
They are-
Gary Barlow:
... because they are the heaviest things I've ever experienced. Ridiculous.
Will Betts:
Is this part of your exercise regimen then, Gary?
Gary Barlow:
It should be, it should be.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Gary Barlow:
I promise you it's a-
Chris Barker:
They-
Gary Barlow:
... two man job.
Chris Barker:
That'd be good on world's strongest man, wouldn't it? Instead of those big boulders, they just have different studio monitors, just because he's really ripped to engineers.
Will Betts:
And just a huge Icelandic man carrying a soffit mounted Genelec or something.
Chris Barker:
So we've got the speakers now. So item number two, and I'm guessing this is, like you said, this is a studio for inspiration, for writing. What's going to be studio item number two?
Gary Barlow:
Well, listen, we have to have a keyboard. We both play. So when we've got to get information into our Logic, so I've got to go with my original, which is sat here behind me, my original, from 1985, DX7.
Chris Barker:
Going for the DX7. That is a... Yeah, wow, okay.
Gary Barlow:
There she is.
Chris Barker:
And you bought that in 1987?
Gary Barlow:
Was it not '85, I think.
Chris Barker:
Wow. Okay.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah, yeah. I got from Dawsons Music in Warrington-
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
... and I paid over 18 months. I mean, god, it's just crazy. I paid so much a week for 18 months, and then after the 18 months I was waiting on the wall for this van to turn the corner and I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it when it finally got there. And then you didn't see me for about three years.
Chris Barker:
It's interesting you're going for that. Has it got velocity sensitivity, the DX7?
Gary Barlow:
I don't think-
Chris Barker:
I don't think it-
Gary Barlow:
... so. No, I don't think it has.
Chris Barker:
Maybe-
Gary Barlow:
Actually I think it has, I think it has, because... Yeah, yeah, it has.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Is it the DX7 II you've got, then?
Gary Barlow:
No, it's the first one.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Must do, yeah. I think so.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah, yeah. This one. I've got-
Chris Barker:
What?
Gary Barlow:
... but it's in London, that one. Yeah. So listen, I just... a little DX7 story. So I could programme a DX7 back in the day.
Chris Barker:
Just you and Brian Eno and that was it.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah. No, no, no, no, this is where I'm going with it. And then, of course, I went off into the world and joined a group, and then I barely saw my DX7 until about two years ago. But on our first album we worked with a guy called Pete Hammond. Right, now Pete Hammond was part of PWL. So all those records you heard, Kylie Minogue, Mel & Kim, Donna Summer, Rick Astley, yeah, yeah. Pete was the engineer and programmer on all those records. And when I got to the studio he had a DX7. And all he ever used to do was go up to the DX7 and he'd pressure initialise, and I was like, “What's this guy doing?” And he would programme. Every time he did a new song it would be programmed from zero.
Gary Barlow:
And I got, they're over there, every night, just before I left, I got my RAM card out, save. And I've got a lovely little cartridge full of Pete's sounds. And it's funny, because a few years ago we did a soundtrack for a movie called Eddie The Eagle, and we all decided let's set it in the time it was in, and I think it was '86. I might be wrong there. But we were using all these sounds then, and I used a lot from this RAM cartridge that I got from Pete. So that's a little DX7 story for you there.
Chris Barker:
And, have you used the software versions FM8 and Dexed or those kind of things as well? I mean, because you can transfer the sounds via SysEx into software as well, can't you?
Gary Barlow:
I've done that.
Chris Barker:
It's not that portable the DX, is it, compared to-
Gary Barlow:
I know. I know. And, you know what, it's funny because I've recently been doing a new TV show that's set in '85, and they're getting another run out, all these samples and these keyboards. I actually prefer to play the... the DX7 has a great keyboard, one of the best keyboards for a synth to actually play. So I'd actually prefer-
Will Betts:
Incredible.
Gary Barlow:
... to play it and time it once I've played it, rather than just input it into Logic.
Chris Barker:
Well, so far very heavy studio, with the Focals and the DX7, so we're going to have to hire a lorry to start building this stuff, but that's all good. So item number three, what's next?
Gary Barlow:
Are you going to drop this Ryan? We're going to light the room up with this one with one.
Ryan Carline:
Well, there's so many things, isn't there?. Well, we'd need a real piano as well, But we could come back to that. Microphone. We need a mic desperately, don't we?
Gary Barlow:
We do, we do.
Chris Barker:
Tell us about your journey through microphones. I mean, Gary, do you have a go-to? Ryan, have you tried different on Gary's voice? How's this worked out?
Ryan Carline:
Yeah, we've got a nice selection and we alternate, like Gary upstairs now has got a Soyuz, which is nice, and downstairs I've got the original U47 and a 67 we bought from Townhouse when it closed down, I think in 2008.
Will Betts:
It's a classic choice.
Ryan Carline:
And that's the favourite at the moment, for me, is the 67
Gary Barlow:
And it's sometimes let the song decide too-
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Gary Barlow:
... to try and... Like I said before, you got to step back a little bit and go, “Yeah, that mic sounds good, but is it right for this song?” And this is part of the... When you're talking about acoustic guitars or synthesisers, there's a stage before all this, it's like, “What's the song? What the song asking for? Is it asking for a harsher vocal sound? Is it asking for a bright vocal sound?” It has to go back to that each time. So the conversation almost starts before we start talking about numbers and microphones. But they're definitely our go-to mics?
Chris Barker:
Were there any songs on the album where you've recorded the vocal and then switched the mic and rerecorded because for that reason? Or are you always set? Do you know the decision before you do the final vocal takes?
Ryan Carline:
Yeah, I'm sure we did on at least one song. We ended up recutting a vocal. But I think, generally, it's, once we've got the performance, I think that outweighs the sonic differences with the mic. It's all about the performance, But I think we did recut it on a 67, but it was probably more to do with-
Will Betts:
Right.
Ryan Carline:
... the performance or some lyric changes and... Yeah, I ended up sticking with the 67.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Ryan Carline:
But yeah, it's all about, like you say, the song and getting the performance really, if you've got a good sounding mic. I'd go with the 67.
Gary Barlow:
So one little conversation you guys should be aware of is that, because Ryan gets all my efforts and it goes through him, he's, over the years, talked me out of singing into my SM58, because how many, come on, how many times have we used those takes?
Ryan Carline:
Yeah.
Gary Barlow:
I mean-
Ryan Carline:
It's shocking, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
Because we just couldn't match it. Because as you're writing these songs, you're in a moment and you're, especially that first hour when you've given birth to something and you're in it, it might be just a feel thing, but it's hard to replicate that three months later when you've worked on the track. And so I do, I have decent mics setup now, that just give people like Ryan a bit more chance when it comes to the mix. Because we love a 58, but, at the end of the day, it's quite a coarse microphone and you're trying to put body into your voice and you don't want to overprocess it, and so you get more of a chance when you're singing it into tube... beautiful mics.
Chris Barker:
But that's a great example, like you just said, but even so, if the performance is right, you'll make that 58 work in the mix because the performance is there.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
We're going for the 67 then, yeah?
Will Betts:
The 67? Okay. It's locked.
Gary Barlow:
It's locked.
Chris Barker:
It's locked. Will has noted it down. It's locked in the forever studio. So what? Where are we up to now? Item number five?
Will Betts:
Item number four. We've only had three, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Oh, number four, number four.
Will Betts:
Number four, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
So what we had so far, DX7, U67-
Chris Barker:
Focals.
Gary Barlow:
... lot of sevens.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
SM7. No, no, it's nine, isn't it? SM9.
Ryan Carline:
Well, we need a mic pre as well, don't we? No, let's safe one of our choices and just use the Apollo pres, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
That's it. That's a good idea. Right, you go to the next one.
Chris Barker:
No. You don't fancy a big desk?
Ryan Carline:
Desk. I would... yeah, I would probably go for something like an S6 actually, which I believe works with Logic as well because it's EuCon, just because I like the muscle memory. Because we used to have an SSL and I'd just have tape on there all the time showing me where things... and I'd just get used to where things are and you can just grab faders. I do love that.
Gary Barlow:
We're not wasting one of these choices on a controller, are we?
Ryan Carline:
Well.
Gary Barlow:
Please tell me we're not doing that.
Chris Barker:
Here it comes.
Ryan Carline:
Now, how many choices have we got left? How many have we used?
Will Betts:
Four.
Gary Barlow:
When I'm listening, will it sound better because we've used a controller? No, it won't.
Ryan Carline:
Okay. Let's go for something else.
Chris Barker:
If we've got, what, two more choices, Will, right?
Will Betts:
We got three more, if we get rid of the Avid S6. If we get rid of the S6 we can-
Gary Barlow:
Surely we've got to land this bomb, Rhino? Surely we've got-
Chris Barker:
Do you want to-
Gary Barlow:
... land this bomb on these guys-
Will Betts:
Go on then.
Gary Barlow:
... because I can't wait to... Yeah, I think you should... Or should we leave it to last?
Ryan Carline:
Yeah, depends which bomb you're talking about.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Gary Barlow:
We'll do the mic drop last. So we'll do the mic drops... The beginning with T-
Ryan Carline:
Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
... that we use on our speakers.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah, we need that. Yeah.
Gary Barlow:
We'll drop that bomb last, I think. Okay. Well, we got two more left, right?
Chris Barker:
No, three more. Three more if you don't have the controller.
Gary Barlow:
Oh, we've got three more. Okay. Okay.
Ryan Carline:
How about the Retro 176? We've always had 1176s.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Ryan Carline:
And I'm really loving this Retro 176. You don't get all the crackly pots. It's new, but it sounds as good as an 1176. It's got the side chain. It's a nice Swiss Army knife compressor. It's good.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah, because we can track through it, and then we can bump stuff out through it as well. So it's a, like Ryan said, it's a good army knife, that is, for just giving stuff a bit of character, or even just taming them a little.
Chris Barker:
So you'd put that through the vocal mic as well, potentially, just a touch?
Ryan Carline:
Oh definitely, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. I mean, we've had the 1176 a lot, right Will?
Will Betts:
We have indeed. But you're doing it on the way in and your using it as an insert as well then, are you, when you're processing on?
Gary Barlow:
I think we could do. I think we could do. I mean, we spend a lot of time bouncing stuff out through analogue. We've got a nice collection over the years of, you can probably see some of it just over Ryan's right shoulder there, we've got some really nice bits of analogue. And especially for the sort of album we've just been making, to warm it up and give it character, especially those big spaces. When you're recording 30, 40 people at a time, it's like it can get out of control, that sound can, and it's really good to give it some character and give it some warmth, quite often is-
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Those people were recorded in LA, in a big room in LA, or were they recorded all different places?
Gary Barlow:
Yeah, in London, in London. We used-
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Gary Barlow:
Well, we used a few different places. We used Air for strings and we used British Grove for strings and sometimes-
Chris Barker:
Nice.
Gary Barlow:
... brass. But we always loved Angel for brass and that's closed. That church room was our favourite room for brass, because you could put a drummer in there as well and you could separate the bass and the piano. It was a really, really vibey room for brass.
Chris Barker:
No Abbey Road?
Gary Barlow:
No, we haven't, have we? Not this time.
Ryan Carline:
Not this time. But we do use it a lot. We love Abbey Road.
Chris Barker:
So item number five.
Gary Barlow:
Okay. So we've got a laptop, right? Have we done that?
Chris Barker:
Yeah. You've got your Mac, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
Got a Mac.
Will Betts:
Well, so do you want to just tell us a bit more about what that ideal computer is for you, then? Are you going for one of the big Mac Pros? Are you going for a laptop? Are you going for a little Mac Mini? What's ideal for you guys?
Ryan Carline:
My choice would be the Mac Pro. I'd go all the way over the one and a half terabytes of RAM, loads of SSDs. Because we do a lot of orchestral mocking up as well, and we've got the Pro. So we'd just be able to run it all on the same Mac if we had the Mac Pro.
Chris Barker:
But then Gary would lose his portability.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. There is that as well. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Because you like to travel around with the laptop and what that way, Gary, right?
Gary Barlow:
Yeah. But if we've got these SM9 with us, then we've lost our portability from the word go, haven't we?
Chris Barker:
That's true. I suppose it is a forever studio-
Gary Barlow:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
... so yeah, that's fine. Yeah.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. Let's go with a Mac Pro.
Will Betts:
So we're four down. We've got two options, two selections left.
Gary Barlow:
I would say a preamp. I would say one. I would say, if you're going to have a mic and you're going to have a compressor, then you'd have a Neve, you'd have a 1073 or... It's just, again, it's just every studio's got one and there's a reason for that.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Gary Barlow:
It's just like picking microphones is one thing, but, I mean, I'd often say, “Okay, U67, but what's the preamp?”
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Gary Barlow:
Because that's going to change it. And we're talking about absolutely tiny percentages here now of what makes things sound different. But when you... over the course of making a record, if you're doing those tiny percentages in every decision you make, they're all adding up to something which is much more important.
Chris Barker:
Do you think it's worth losing an item not to use a UA preamps?
Ryan Carline:
I don't know. It depends if software comes out of those choices.
Will Betts:
It does.
Chris Barker:
Well, you get the built in software when you buy the UA. Whatever comes out of the box you get.
Gary Barlow:
But you get quite a lot with that though, don't you? I mean, the UA bundle has got-
Chris Barker:
Whoa, bundle?
Santa:
Ho, ho, ho. Merry Christmas. No-
Gary Barlow:
Oh, we're not-
Santa:
... bundles.
Gary Barlow:
Oh, we're not allowed a bundle.
Will Betts:
They're allowed this one. They're allowed this one, because it comes with it.
Gary Barlow:
Well, that's quite a lot. That's quite a lot, that is. Go on Ryan, what's your suggestion then? Because we know what the last one is. So what would your fifth one be?
Ryan Carline:
Are we going software, then?
Chris Barker:
You can have whatever you want.
Gary Barlow:
Let's do something software. Let's do something software.
Ryan Carline:
I think I'd have to go with something really boring but important and choose iZotope RX, just because there's nothing else that can do that, and-
Gary Barlow:
That's true.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah.
Gary Barlow:
That's a good one.
Chris Barker:
As somebody recording podcasts during a pandemic, I can agree.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. Yeah. It's one thing being able to beautifully record, but then if you've got a great performance and there's something wrong with it, you need to be able to fix it. Yeah, RX is the way to go.
Chris Barker:
So did that come in handy on the SM58 takes for instance?
Ryan Carline:
Well, yeah, it comes in handy with everything. If somebody accidentally kicks a mic stand and, or there's piano pedal noises to reduce and things like that, guitar squeaks. It's invaluable. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
It's a bit voodoo, isn't it? Every time they bring a new version out and I go and see the demo-
Ryan Carline:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
... you're like, “How do you keep improving this? How do you keep coming up with new ideas for it?” It seems like it's getting to be like audio magic right now, some of the stuff it can do.
Ryan Carline:
It's so amazing.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Ryan Carline:
And things like the de-bleed as well, to get reduced spill and all that. It's just magic. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Can you think of an example of something horrible which has come right?
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. Well, when we do live shows, I've had situations where I've had to draw out with a pencil a certain whistle, somebody will be whistling in the audience and they're just a bit too close to one of the audience mics. And you could actually see the whistle in the spectrogram and you could actually draw it out with the pencil. So that's, yeah, that's the trickiest thing I've ever had to deal with because there was so many of them. There was this one guy probably just doing this really loud whistle.
Chris Barker:
That's probably now somebody listens to this, one of Gary's biggest fans listening to this thing.
Gary Barlow:
I love him. I'd have left him in.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Saying, “That was my whistle.”
Ryan Carline:
Yeah, Gary's starting RX as well even.
Gary Barlow:
It's so handy. Just for all your listeners, if any of them have Altiverb and they go in and find Wembley Stadium or the Natural History Museum, it was Ryan that made those impulses, just so you know.
Chris Barker:
Awesome.
Ryan Carline:
That's a great piece of software as well, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Nice. I didn't know there was a National History Museum one as well. That's very cool.
Gary Barlow:
Oh, he's only just made that. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Will Betts:
Oh.
Chris Barker:
Is that out there then now?
Ryan Carline:
No, I sent it over to them. I've actually given it to the guys at Audio Ease, and I've even given some pictures as well.
Chris Barker:
Okay.
Ryan Carline:
So it may be in a future release, yeah.
Chris Barker:
So is this mic drop time? Mic drop, item number six.
Gary Barlow:
Take it away, Ryan, because you know more about this than me. It's new on us, this. But this is a game changer.
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. We've just gone for the Trinnov ST2, I think it's called, the ST2 Pro. We've used Sonarworks for years, just because we move around studios a lot, and you often don't have the time to acclimatise to the room, get used to the sound of the room and the speakers. So I would take around a mic with me and, with Sonarworks, you need to take about 30 or 40 measurements. And with the Trinnov, you've just got this one mic, a 3D mic. You just stick it there and it takes about two minutes and you're done.
Chris Barker:
So some more audio voodoo. So this is a good selection. We've got DX7 to really cutting edge RX and, yeah, room calibration.
Ryan Carline:
That's it. So we've got one in each room now actually. They're really, really good.
Will Betts:
Yeah. So this is the microphone that looks a little bit like a kohlrabi. It's got three things that sits up on top of it and then-
Ryan Carline:
Yeah, that's it.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Okay.
Ryan Carline:
But yeah, three prongs. Yeah.
Will Betts:
Three prongs. And so you're taking this all over the place. What, does it just live in a suitcase? Because It's quite a big rack mount thing, the actual processor. How the hell does that go with you anywhere?
Ryan Carline:
It's a 2U rack. You can take it around in a flight case.
Will Betts:
Okay.
Ryan Carline:
But we've got one in each room. We tend to just leave them in the studio. But if we were going somewhere for any length of time, we'd take it with us probably. Otherwise I might make do with Sonarworks for a quick visit to another studio. But it just sounds great.
Will Betts:
And how did you come across it then? Where were you introduced to this thing?
Ryan Carline:
We just thought... I've always wanted to try one, to hear what the difference is. Because, with Sonarworks, I'll work in zero latency mode a lot of the time, because I do a lot of playing, and then when I'm mixing, you can have a mixed mode or a linear phase mode. Whereas with the Trinnov, you can actually get the latency down low enough, you stick it at 96K-
Will Betts:
Yeah.
Ryan Carline:
... yet it sounds like Sonarworks, or better than Sonarworks, when it's set to linear phase mode, except you've got the best of all worlds. It's low latency as well, which is really important for us, being able to just play stuff in without having to bypass the plugin or stick it on zero latency mode.
Ryan Carline:
And for Gary as well, if we're in Logic, we've chosen Logic haven't we, you needs to remember to bypass the Sonarworks every time you bounce your mix. So that's annoying as well. But you don't have to think about that with the Trinnov. It's just always on.
Ryan Carline:
On my desk here, I've got externals, so I've got a separate interface for, say, YouTube, I could have like the max built-in output. But all of that's going through the Trinnov. It's all calibrated.
Chris Barker:
So it has multiple inputs or...
Ryan Carline:
Yeah. It basically comes out of my X MON here in the studio, and it's the last thing before the speakers. So, basically, whatever stereo source you select, it will be going through their Trinnov and corrected. Whereas you can do that with Sonarworks. It would only be, say, Logic that was calibrated.
Gary Barlow:
So guys, just so you understand my... because I've done this a few times now, is that you've... it's the same thing, it's the same philosophy, is that you just stand back a minute and go, “None of us, even if we've spent thousands on acousticians, there's always problems with rooms” All right? And nowadays most of us are recording and sitting and making, writing, producing, mixing, whatever, in rooms which aren't designed to have sound in them, right. And so every move you're making all day long could be wrong because you're not hearing, unless you've got amazing set of headphones that you're really used to. Whatever's coming through your speakers is probably wrong. It's probably not sounding the way it's going to sound. So we've just got the system in, and of course it sounds terrific. The best we've ever heard and it's like, “Yes, it's expensive.” But we fill these rooms with thousands of pounds worth of stuff and we buy thousands of pounds worth of software. Yes. This is thousands of... It's just the best money we've ever spent. And we will not be going back from this point. And anyone I speak to is just like... It's the main thing, other than your laptop, it's the main thing in your studio. I just... It's a philosophy that I just don't understand if you go, “Oh, no, I don't want that. Why would I need that?” It's just crazy to me.
Chris Barker:
Okay. So Will, do you want to do us a rundown of the final studio items before we talk about luxury?
Will Betts:
I will indeed. Okay. I'm going to set the scene. We're in Malibu in a recreation of the big room from Real World with windows overlooking the Pacific. Your computer is a Mac Pro, fully specced. Your DAW is Logic Pro. Your audio interface is a Universal Audio Apollo, although we never spoke about which one you want. Do you want a big rack mount one? Is that the idea?
Gary Barlow:
With us it's always the biggest.
Will Betts:
Always. X8P, okay. If you're monitoring, you are listening back on Focal SM9s. You're playing in all of your insane patches from the 1980s with your Yamaha DX7. You're recording your voice with a Neuman U67 through a Retro Instruments 176. And then you're fixing any issues you have with iZotope RX7, and using the Trinnov ST2 Pro system to make sure that everything is as it is meant to be in the room. How does that sound?
Gary Barlow:
Sounds delicious to me, that does. It really does. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
So, as you know, we then go on to the final thing, which is the luxury item. Now, because it's the Christmas special, we thought it'd be fun for you to gift each other a luxury item. So essentially we get to the luxury items, but Gary, you have to gift Ryan, Ryan, you gift Gary. So this is not a piece of kit for the studio, this is just something that you like to have in the studio that isn't gear related, but you can gift each other for Christmas. So who wants to go first?
Gary Barlow:
I'll go first. I'll give you that beautiful piano that's behind you there.
Will Betts:
Not allowed. Not allowed.
Gary Barlow:
Not allowed?
Will Betts:
I mean-
Chris Barker:
Well, you can have that. It's kind of gear related, to be fair isn't it?
Will Betts:
Oh, I feel like we're-
Chris Barker:
Tell us about the-
Will Betts:
Yeah, go on.
Chris Barker:
... piano though. What is it?
Ryan Carline:
It's a Yamaha S6. We did a little shootout several years ago, and this was the best all around that we found for what we do. It's great.
Chris Barker:
I mean, I'm going to, because it's Christmas, we'll allow it, we'll allow it, we'll allow it.
Will Betts:
You're going to allow it? Okay, fine. Well, let's have Ryan from you, gifting Gary a luxury item. It's not allowed to be studio related. We do have to have a non-studio related item on the list.
Ryan Carline:
An` item?
Chris Barker:
What do you get Gary Barlow for Christmas?
Ryan Carline:
A swimming pool outside, or-
Gary Barlow:
Oh, that's a nice one.
Chris Barker:
That's nice, yeah. Especially as-
Will Betts:
That's allowed, yeah.
Gary Barlow:
So this is outdoor outside looking at the Pacific, just outside our Real World studio-
Ryan Carline:
With an infinity pool.
Gary Barlow:
That's it. Perfect.
Chris Barker:
Maybe where the lake would be at Real World, that would be like your infinity pool.
Ryan Carline:
That's it. That'd be the infinity pool.
Chris Barker:
Gary, that does make your present sound a bit shit now.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah, I know but-
Ryan Carline:
I'd be happy on that piano.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah, but I was going to say our piano could probably earn as a swimming pool at some point. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
That's true. Yeah, yeah. That's fair enough. Okay. Well, that brings us to the end of the podcast. Thanks so much for talking gear with us. So the album is out now, doing really well. Pleased with the response so far?
Gary Barlow:
Yeah, we're really pleased, really pleased. As we advance through the decades and get older, there's always that thought, when that first couple of days' sales come in, where it's like, “Is this it? Is this the decline?” We've had a lovely, lovely response to this. We've actually, you know what, I'll mention it just because we get so... I mean, through the years, I always... I'm reviewed awfully for my records. But we've actually had some pretty nice reviews. I don't know whether it's the current climate that's softening our poison penned writers, but, yeah, we've actually had some very nice reviews. Reviews don't matter until they're good.
Chris Barker:
That's a nice policy. That is a nice policy. And what does 2021 hold for you, or post pandemic, like what's going to be going on next year for you in an ideal world, in a fixed world, hopefully?
Gary Barlow:
Do you know what? We're extremely busy, constantly busy. We've got two films on the go at the moment. Two TV series. Possibly a new record next year. Lots of live. I mean, it's amazing really, because we don't really work with anyone else. So it's just doing my stuff, which includes Take That, in our studio, and there's, there's three of us in there and it keeps us all just busy all year round, so... Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And will taking this album on tour be a huge task? Are you going to be taking that kind of level of musicians that you recorded?
Gary Barlow:
Probably 30. We could probably-
Will Betts:
Wow.
Gary Barlow:
I mean, it's going to depend on restrictions because, for instance, if I went out next month, to tour 30 I'd need about seven tour buses to keep everybody separate. So we can't really be in a COVID time to do that. We'd have to have a bit of normality in the world. But obviously, musicians, our musicians, haven't worked for a year now, and so by the time next year comes, I'll be wanting to fill the stage with musicians just to support the industry.
Chris Barker:
Of course, yeah. Well, fingers crossed for that and let's end on a positive note. Merry Christmas, and thank you for so much for coming on the podcast guys really, really appreciate it.
Gary Barlow:
Yeah, great.
Chris Barker:
Have a wonderful Christmas.
Will Betts:
Merry Christmas.
Chris Barker:
Thank you. Goodbye.
Will Betts:
Thank you.
Gary Barlow:
Thanks guys.
Ryan Carline:
Great.
Chris Barker:
Thanks.
Gary Barlow:
Thanks guys.
Chris Barker:
Thanks again to Gary Barlow and Ryan Carline for coming on our Christmas special. Some excellent picks there.
Will Betts:
Absolutely that Trinnov thing, that was-
Chris Barker:
Mic drop time.
Will Betts:
The nerdiest mic drop of all time, and totally, totally here for it. If you're a fan of the My Forever Studio podcast, make sure you subscribe using your favourite podcasting app and maybe even give us a sumptuous five star rating.
Chris Barker:
Yes please. Do it. Next time on the show, we're looking forward to being joined by electronic mega talent Tycho.
Will Betts:
Yes. And he has an incredible studio from since already in real world land. So he's going to have to choose very wisely.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, it's going to be a challenge for him, for sure.
Will Betts:
Indeed. Anyway, thanks for listening and catch you next time for more adventures into studio foreverdom.
Chris Barker:
Bye bye.