Creating his fantasy Forever Studio this time is Dutch DJ and producer Mason who rose to fame in 2006 with the Electro House banger, Exceeder, a track that went on to be remixed and re-released multiple times, topping charts and rocking clubs all over the world. Since then Mason has started his own label, Animal Language, and has released music on major labels and some of dance music’s most respected imprints. Now, with his new record out on Toolroom, we talk unusual musical origins, why Dutch is the best language for techno track titles and how he creates hundreds of track ideas for each record.
Chris Barker:
I'm Chris Barker.
Will Betts:
And I'm Will Betts. And this is the MusicTech My Forever Studio Podcast.
Chris Barker:
In this podcast, we speak with producers, DJs, audio engineers and industry figureheads about their fantasy forever studio.
Will Betts:
This will be a studio built within the confines of our semi-strict rules, and one that they'll have to live with forever. Chris, would you care to explain the rules?
Chris Barker:
I would. I would. Well, our guest can select a computer, a DAW and an audio interface first. Those are the freebies. Then, they can only choose six other bits of studio kit, plus one luxury item.
Will Betts:
But Chris, what if they try and game the system and select, say, I don't know, a collection of plug-ins?
Chris Barker:
No. No. No. No. No bundles.
Will Betts:
No bundles.
Chris Barker:
No bundles. Okay. Joining us today is Mason, a Dutch DJ and producer who rose to fame in 2006 with the electro house banger, Exceeder. I'm sure everybody knows that track. It was a track that went on to be remixed and re-released multiple times, topping charts and rocking clubs all over the world. Since then, Mason has started his own Animal Language label, and has released on both major labels and some of dance music's most respected imprints. With Mason's new album, Frisky Biscuits, on Toolroom Records, and myself and Will knowing how much of a studio geek Mason is, we thought it was only right that he try to assemble his six-item forever studio.
Will Betts:
I, for one, can't wait. This is My Forever Studio with Mason.
Chris Barker:
Welcome, Mason, hello.
Mason:
Hey. Hey, guys.
Will Betts:
How's it going?
Mason:
Good. I don't particularly see myself as a studio geek. I just happen to hang out in them, like, 100 hours a week for the last 20 years. So then, you kind of subconsciously become one.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. I mean, it's not an insult to say you're a studio geek. That's our world. I mean, me and you have met before a few times, and I've been to your studio. And I classify a studio geek as-
Will Betts:
It's geeky, yeah, I suppose.
Chris Barker:
People who have little bits of kit everywhere. And you have a lot of that, so that's why I was giving you the medal of top geekery.
Mason:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm getting also geekier with the years. You know? And tweaking sounds like the stuff that nobody hears, nobody cares about, from my audience. But I just enjoy it, to have stuff sound good.
Chris Barker:
Well, I guess you kind of need that to keep pushing yourself on. After a certain amount of time, you need that. Yeah, those new exciting moments, and those things to get obsessed about. Because otherwise, it is just the same, isn't it?
Mason:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And as much as electronic music is always progressing, there are certain limits when you're making club music that you're looking to please a dancing crowd, as such. You have to-
Mason:
Yeah. But I also always felt like stuff like mixdown was a bit of a necessary evil that I had to do. For instance, you mentioned Exceeder. I had no idea how a compressor worked back then, or any of that. And it also doesn't matter. It's, at the end, about the music. But just the last few years, I also enjoyed the craft, let's say, a bit more.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Well, you heard the premise of the forever studio. And you kindly told us that you'd listened to a few episodes as well, which was very nice.
Mason:
Yeah. Yeah. And it's super good timing because I'm always thinking about how to improve my studio, and create a new studio as well.
Chris Barker:
Well, and the great thing about this as well is you have unlimited budget, and it's all-
Mason:
Let's go.
Chris Barker:
You're stepping out of reality, so we can see where we go. I guess the first thing, where are you going to put this studio? Anywhere in the world. I mean, you've always lived in Amsterdam, right?
Mason:
Yeah, pretty much. And yeah, I would pick Amsterdam again, really. Because I just want to be where everybody around me is. And Amsterdam is such a nice place to live. It's small. It's still a village, but it has all the features of a world city. So, I'll definitely go for Amsterdam, but a different location, though. I'm actually looking at the minute, so I'm kind of looking around and trying to find something that's different and cool. There's this fire ... How do you call it? Fire brigade building, or something?
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Yeah. Fire station.
Mason:
Yeah. And I'm always hoping they'll go bankrupt or something. Then at least I'll have a good studio. And then maybe the whole Amsterdam goes into fire, but at least I have my-
Will Betts:
Yeah. I was going to say. You get your studio in there, and then it burns down, ironically.
Mason:
Yeah. I actually saw, on the Dutch equivalent of eBay, a submarine for sale. It's about 100 grand. And I don't think it can actually still go underwater, but I think my street cred would be sorted for the rest of my career.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Could you drive that around the canals of Amsterdam, a submarine? That would be pretty wild.
Mason:
Yeah. I think you have to, with a rope. You have to kind of drag it. Because I think the engines are ... I think it's a Russian submarine, actually.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Yeah. Drag it around. Like walking a dog, but you'd be just-
Mason:
Yeah. I have no idea about the acoustics of a ... It's probably not amazing.
Will Betts:
It's probably horrible. But I mean, you could fill it with incredible ... You could get it all acoustically treated and everything. You might just not have a lot of space after you've filled it with the acoustic treatment.
Mason:
Yeah. I'll be underground forever.
Chris Barker:
Hang on. We're not choosing a submarine in Amsterdam as your location for a studio, are we?
Mason:
No. Maybe let's go for the fire brigade's-
Chris Barker:
Okay. The fire station.
Mason:
Yeah, fire station.
Chris Barker:
Okay. And are you redecorating? What's it going to look like inside? What's the vibe? What kind of vibe do you like in a studio?
Mason:
I like my studio kind of clean. And I want daylight, because I'm really, for the last 20 years, every morning til evening, there. I just treat it as a job, like an accountant or anything else. If I wouldn't have daylight ... I mean, it looks cool on Instagram and everything, a dark studio with red button, red lights flashing and stuff. But without daylight, I would just turn into a vampire, I'm afraid. I think I will lose a bit of reality. I have daylight now. Yeah. So, daylight, clean. Does it get with furniture, or is it also one of the six items?
Chris Barker:
Yeah. That's all just what you can describe as the vibe. I mean, you don't need to choose furniture or computer screens or anything like that for your items. Don't worry. We'll get to that. Yeah, just talk to us about what it would look like. I mean, are you doing the whole modern studio furniture thing? Or would you be all-
Mason:
Oh no, man. No. I'm secretly saving pictures of EDM studios, where they're like, "Brand new studio," and you see all these huge lead strips, and with purple lights and flashing white desk. And then there's a Apollo Duet and a chair, or something.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Unfortunately, the Dutch invented that type of studio, I'm afraid. That's a Dutch invention, that spaceship studio.
Mason:
Yeah. It's just Instagram studio, isn't it? I mean, there's nothing. It just needs to look flashy, it needs to feel like a studio, but apart from that it has very little to do with studio, apart from acoustics.
Chris Barker:
Well, I think it is a Dutch guy that did van Buuren's, and Hardwell's, and Nicky Romero's. He's an acoustician studio builder.
Mason:
Yeah, Jacobi. Jacobi something.
Chris Barker:
Yes. Yes, yes. Yeah. Mischa. Mischa Jacobi. That's it. Mischa, yeah. Amazing. Amazing guy.
Mason:
I like my studios classic. I think I would go for the wood, and more classical-type studio. I grew up, actually, when I was really young, like six or seven, I was a singer on TV between six and 10, 11. And it was at a time when there was only one TV station Holland, so it was a bit of a thing. Like a sort of Disney Club, kind of. It turned out, I hang out in studios every week when I was really young, and it was in a time you had these huge SSL desks, and tape reels. And I just was so in love with it. So, I think I would want to have my studio look like that.
Mason:
It was also when I realised ... Back, then, I thought I want to be a sound engineer. Because I felt like these guys, with their pony tails and smelling like old sweat, and black t-shirt, that they look like-
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Something to aspire to, there.
Mason:
Yeah. I didn't know that actually writing music would be a fun thing to do as well.
Chris Barker:
And you didn't have to have a pony tail and stink, which could be nice.
Mason:
Yeah. I do stink a bit at the minute.
Chris Barker:
That's a great reason for that vibe, though. That interaction when you were a kid on TV and going into those studios, that's great.
Mason:
Yeah. The good thing about studio is that you don't see any people. I really love the fact that if I go to studio, I can lose every sense of vanity, and wear my oldest, crappy shit because I'm on my own all day anyway.
Chris Barker:
That is true. That's been the pandemic life for us as well.
Mason:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
At some point, you're going to have to go down the fire pole, though, and go outside, presumably.
Mason:
Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Chris Barker:
So, we've got the studio. We're in Amsterdam. We're in the old fire station. And now we're saying, Mac or PC? This is a free item, not one of your six. You get three free items. Mac or PC?
Mason:
Mac, for sure. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
And has that always been the case? Or did you switch at some point?
Mason:
Yeah. I started with Amiga 500. A500, still classic.
Chris Barker:
Whoa. I mean, I said Mac or PC. If you want an Amiga, that's allowed as well.
Mason:
No, I think I'll ... Yeah. I like [inaudible 00:09:01], though. But no. Then I had a PC, one of these self-build, 386 or 4 ... I don't know. And I had Cubasis, you know the one that was on one floppy disc? And then I started to do this music, four-year course thing. And there, you had to work with Logic from day one. So, I switched to Logic in '98 or something on a PC. It was still a black and white version, I think. So, it was Logic 3, I guess.
Chris Barker:
Was it when Logic switched to being Mac-only that made you switch? Or was it going to be something as your success and stuff changed, you were always going to go to Mac?
Mason:
I don't recall a switch, really. It must have been somewhere around that time.
Chris Barker:
Because obviously when Apple bought Emagic and changed that, a lot of people had to go to Mac, even if they didn't want to, because they wanted to stick with Logic.
Mason:
Yeah. No, I was already for a while on Apple by then.
Chris Barker:
Oh, okay. And you still using Logic?
Mason:
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Is that going to be the DAW of choice?
Mason:
Yeah, man. I mean, I always find a bit boring, the whole DAW discussion. I mean, they're all pretty fucking great. And it's about making music, at the end, and it's about being super fast with it. Because the less time you spend on searching for a functionality in a certain menu, the more time you can spend on being creative. And you can do all sorts of cool things with all sorts of different DAWs. Yeah. I'm just super fast with Logic. I don't think about it. I just click, click, click, click, click, and make my own million self-made shortcuts. Yeah. It's always funny if people come to my studio. They have no idea how my system works, because it's all ... Over the years, if you change stuff in Logic every week, after 20 years it became a bit of a freak.
Will Betts:
The thing that killed me was when the changed the Tool key from Escape to T. And that freaked my brain out for ages. Did you have that same? You've got the muscle memory from years and years of using it. And then it's like, wait. What? What is this?
Mason:
Yeah. And then you change it back, right?
Will Betts:
No. I just went with it. I just retrained my brain.
Mason:
Oh yeah?
Will Betts:
I was like, oh, I got this.
Chris Barker:
Will just had a breakdown for six months while he retrained his entire workflow.
Will Betts:
That's exactly it, yeah. Yeah. Just tell us about this Mac then, before we get onto the next bit. The Mac, you're going to go full loaded, everything on a high, high spec thing? Or are you going to go with a laptop?
Mason:
Yeah. Well actually, just last week I bought a Mac Pro, so I'm in the middle of this whole process, the horrible process of installing everything for the next 10 years. So, yeah. Definitely Mac Pro. Yeah. With all the bullshit, the wheels, the stuff. I don't have that, but in my dream studio I will. I have the cheapest version with external brands SSD and all that.
Will Betts:
Awesome. Now we're onto interfaces. How are you going to get audio in and out?
Mason:
Yeah. That's not part of my six-
Chris Barker:
No.
Will Betts:
No, no. That's a freebie.
Mason:
Okay. Okay, okay.
Chris Barker:
This is the last free one. Because we figure that everybody, pretty much, needs a computer, a DAW and an audio interface.
Mason:
Yeah. Very kind of you.
Will Betts:
Benevolent.
Mason:
Yeah. I'm pretty happy. I've got Metric Halos. I'm pretty happy with those. Also heard really good stories about Prism. So, I might try one of those next.
Chris Barker:
It's a risk. It's forever.
Mason:
It is forever, yeah. Yeah. Then I'll play it safe. I'll just go for a whole bunch of Metric Halos.
Chris Barker:
I just undersold his dreams there, Will. We don't have a jingle for underselling dreams.
Will Betts:
Oh, what are you doing? I think it's just a sad horn. It's like a-
Chris Barker:
Yeah. I just talked him out of getting something better. Okay. Now, we move on to the interesting part of your first item for your forever studio. All you've got at the moment is your cool-looking fire station studio, your Mac, fully loaded, Logic, and your Metric Halos. What's next? First item.
Mason:
Yeah. It's got to be a console, man.
Chris Barker:
Console. Straight away.
Mason:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's one of those things that it doesn't fit in my studio at the minute, but it would definitely fit into a fire station. I mean, if fire trucks and those kind of stuff can fit in there, my console can fit in there. However, I don't think I would go for a big one. I think they're old-fashioned, and you'd need to have an extra room for the power and all that bullshit, and it breaks down every day.
Chris Barker:
That's something that people definitely forget, is the power of those things.
Mason:
Yeah. And the heat.
Chris Barker:
And you have a separate room that's really noisy.
Mason:
And you've got to hire somebody to fix voltmeters every week or something.
Chris Barker:
In the forever studio, just to put it out there, all of the gear is reliable. It's all top notch. So, you don't have to worry about maintenance.
Mason:
Oh yeah?
Will Betts:
Yeah. Forever tech.
Chris Barker:
It's magic, maintenance-free studio.
Mason:
I still think that would be too big for me. I mean, I like to have my stuff at arm's length, so my gear, and that I don't have to walk around in my studio. I think I'll go for probably an SSL AWS 948.
Will Betts:
Okay. Nice.
Mason:
I was actually doubting between a Neve Genesys and this one. And Genesys, the upside was it has an interface in there already, because I felt like A, interface was part of my six items. But now you say you get the interface for free, I can also go for an SSL.
Chris Barker:
I mean, we could try and upsell your dreams to an SSL Duality, though. Let's-
Speaker 4:
Upsell your dreams.
Mason:
No. I think they're too big. I think I'll stay with the AWS.
Chris Barker:
Okay. AWS, that's good. And like I say, the two different sounds there, when you were negotiating between the SSL and the Neve. They're ... A lot would say polar opposites, in their sound. Both great. I mean-
Mason:
True.
Chris Barker:
Is the sound important?
Mason:
Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Or was it that kind of interface functionality?
Mason:
Well, I do like the SSL sounds, and I'm quite a pop-y guy myself. And I like that kind of pop-y, dense, SSL sound, I think of both Neve.
Chris Barker:
Did somebody once say that pretty much every ... There was a certain point in history, probably the late '80s, early '90s, where pretty much every record had touched an SSL at some point, whether it be through a recording or a mixdown, because it was just the sound of pop music, wasn't it, for ages?
Mason:
Yeah. As well as the sound of kids singing on TV in Holland.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So, that was the SSL, that you saw?
Mason:
Exactly, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Wasn't it? Would it be a big G Series or E Series back then, or something?
Mason:
Yeah. I have no idea. I guess it was like a 4040 or something, D, G. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Item number two. Item number two.
Mason:
Item number two. I need big, main monitors, man. Same story. Something that would never fit in my current studio. I would probably go for ATCs.
Chris Barker:
ATCs.
Mason:
The SMC110A or so. The really-
Chris Barker:
I'm loving all the nod to the UK here, so far. It's kind of nice. The SSL, ATC.
Mason:
Trying to please you guys.
Chris Barker:
Thank you.
Will Betts:
Which ones are you going for, then? The ATCs, how big are they going to be?
Mason:
I think I'll go for the really big ones. Because I have the distance, so I'll think I'll go for the 110s.
Chris Barker:
Do we get to say soffit-mounted, Will?
Will Betts:
Soffit-mounted. Yeah, soffit-mounted.
Chris Barker:
I like saying that word.
Mason:
What does it mean?
Will Betts:
In the wall. They're in the wall.
Mason:
In the wall? Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it needs to be classy. They look so ugly, also, on stands. You have these big blocks on stands. You don't do that if you spend that much money.
Will Betts:
It's not the done ... It's distasteful.
Mason:
I mean, that's what you do with some small Genelec speakers.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. It's so vulgar. So vulgar. Put them in the wall. Grow up.
Mason:
Yeah. We're trying to build a classy studio, right?
Chris Barker:
It is actually really classy so far, though. We joke, but it is. Really nice, old fire station, SSL, with some wall-mounted, soffit-mounted, ATCs. I mean, it's pure class so far.
Will Betts:
I imagine also you're looking out over the river. Or, the canals.
Mason:
Yeah. You want some nature, which we have in Amsterdam. And it needs to be a studio where also somebody like Al Green would also feel at home. Comfortable, bit warm.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah. Got that wooden walled vibe.
Mason:
I mean, I don't smoke, but maybe even cigarette smoke in there, just to get that-
Will Betts:
You get the special Ambi Pur cigarette smoke flavour.
Mason:
Yeah. That you get the feeling, "Oh, there's been 40 years of history here."
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Maybe you could get some wood that had been pre-stained with smoke, and add that smell.
Mason:
Yeah. From old bars or something.
Will Betts:
Oh, that's cool.
Chris Barker:
Yes. Yes, and old bar fittings to give-
Will Betts:
That's actually cool, yeah.
Chris Barker:
Right. What's that? We've got-
Will Betts:
Two down.
Chris Barker:
Item number three.
Mason:
Item number three. I was thinking, can I bring as an item a record collection? Mid-sip.
Chris Barker:
Sorry. I was drinking my coffee and I was about to shout, "No bundles," but record collection-
Will Betts:
Oh, I don't know if that ...
Chris Barker:
I mean, I don't think you need to. I think we can give ... A record collection is fine.
Mason:
Because it can also lead to sampling, and I think sampling is also an art form.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. I mean, we can definitely talk about it. I don't think you have to negate one of your items as a record collection. What do you think, Will? We're talking studio equipment here.
Will Betts:
Yeah. I feel like that's part of your personal effects. You can bring a record collection with you. So, yeah. That's all included.
Chris Barker:
I think you would have that kind of stuff. Would you use a hardware sampler, then?
Mason:
No. No, man. No, man. It's hard enough. No, man. Just EXS. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Okay. My third item would be a Fender Rhodes.
Chris Barker:
Nice. Nice. A proper instrument, okay. Do you have one at the moment?
Mason:
I do, yeah.
Chris Barker:
And it's Mark II?
Mason:
Yeah. I do. We have the stage piano. Yeah. I kind of suck as a piano player. I played violin 20-something years. But there's really no fucking use to a violin in a studio. You can do absolutely nothing with it. They created these MIDI violins, but they're just horrible. They don't just follow the pitch and all that. So, I'm having jazz piano lessons now, and really enjoying it. I'm enjoying it actually so much that I don't want to make house music any more. I only want to be playing piano all day. My manager tells me I still should make an album from time to time. But there's something so cool about the fact that you can make all sorts of music with just 12 notes. And I getting so inspired by it.
Mason:
I mean, I did a lot of composing, also classical stuff, in the past. So, I know my way around the basics. But there were always these super weird chords in jazz ... Actually, only in jazz, where I could never really pinpoint what I was hearing. I was just hearing all these weird culmination of notes. And right now, slowly, the curtains is going up and I'm slowly starting to get the logic behind everything. Yeah. I'm really having a nice time on my piano, here, Rhodes.
Chris Barker:
I mean, you mentioned the violin there. But you did used to play occasionally, alongside your DJ sets, right? Or you'd bring it out into that kind of-
Mason:
Yeah. When I was really young, yeah. In the '90s, and just after the Millennium. And when I was about to stop with that, I played in Peru with Tiesto. I played before Tiesto, and then he saw that, and he asked me to join for his world tour. Then I did one more year of violin, and then I just, yeah. Left it at home.
Chris Barker:
So, the violin was a great entry point into the scene.
Mason:
Yeah. It felt a bit like a circus monkey. Like, do your trick. And a bit gimmicky. And I wanted to be about the music I produce, and write, and play, and stuff. And around that time, my own productions started to pick up, so I had a good reason to leave the violin at home.
Chris Barker:
So, Rhodes. Tell us about the type of Rhodes you're getting. Because this is the forever studio.
Mason:
Yeah. I think I have one of the cheapest at the minute. I can't say I know everything about every type of Rhodes, but give me a super, proper, expensive one.
Chris Barker:
Well, I guess the question really is ... I mean, I'm no Rhodes expert either, but are you going to go for really nice, reconditioned, vintage one? Because they did a Mark VII, right?
Mason:
Yeah, no. Definitely vintage one. And I think there are MIDI kits as well. I mean, I don't want to spend one of my six items on an M-Audio MIDI keyboard, so I think let's try to combine those.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Yeah. A restored, MIDI-ready, retrofitted-
Mason:
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
That's fine. That's not a bundle. I don't think that's a bundle. Is that a bundle, Will? I don't think it's a bundle.
Will Betts:
Not a bundle, no. No. I think we're okay. We're safe. We're safe.
Chris Barker:
I think you'll be able to find one of those on eBay somewhere. For a fortune, but yeah.
Will Betts:
And the Fender Rhodes, though. If you're playing that a lot more now, are you finding that that understanding of those jazz, the way that the chords are working and all of this tuition you're having, are you finding that that's influencing the way that you write?
Mason:
Yeah. It finds its way along. Obviously, finds its way also in my tracks. And instead of with a mouse, I'm playing more with keys to do parts into Logic.
Chris Barker:
Is that on the new album as well?
Mason:
Yeah, it is a bit. And yeah, I also saw a review where they were just talking about jazzy stuff. I don't consciously think about it or do it, but just subconsciously, everything you listen to and do finds its way into what you create, right?
Chris Barker:
Item number four is next.
Mason:
Yeah. I need to have one, good, analogue synth, I think. Like a versatile one, polyphonic. I'm not 100% sure yet, so we need to discuss. I was thinking maybe a CS-80 or so.
Chris Barker:
I was going to say, that's usually the one that people reach for, because it's the dream synth.
Will Betts:
I mean, it's a dream choice. But is it what you really want?
Chris Barker:
I mean, do you use analogue recreations? And is that why you would choose CS-80? Do you actually use the plug-in version and wish you had the big, real thing?
Mason:
I do actually also use the plug-in version. But I think there are a lot of great software synths already. So, you want something that has a certain identity that you wouldn't be able to find in the soft world.
Chris Barker:
I guess the CS-80 as well, it still leans into that, almost. It's one of the most jazzy musical of the keyboards. It does lean into that world though, doesn't it?
Mason:
I think it's going to really work well with my oak-y floorboards and cigarette smell. We're building something here.
Will Betts:
It's like inspirational aesthetic as much as the sound.
Mason:
For sure. I mean, it's all smoke and mirrors, right? At the end, it's just a splice loop and, you know.
Will Betts:
That is a-
Speaker 5:
No bundles.
Will Betts:
No splice loops.
Chris Barker:
No splice loops allowed. You going to stick on the CS-80? I mean, you can change your mind further down the line, once you start getting crushed.
Mason:
Yeah, yeah. I'm also, the 16-voice Moog One is also tempting, I suppose. I suppose, I suppose.
Will Betts:
Have you used one of those yet?
Mason:
I haven't no. And also, people told me it's a bit more complicated than it looks. As in, to get the sound out of it that you want, let's say. But it's possibly more versatile than a CS-80, I can imagine. What do you guys reckon?
Will Betts:
Difficult to say, really. Very different things, really.
Chris Barker:
I think it's more versatile in terms of the modern features of it. And probably-
Will Betts:
You can recall stuff.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. And maybe it's a bit more moody for bass and things like that, obviously. But I don't know. I mean, they're both monsters, aren't they? Once you start paying as much as a car for a synthesiser, I think you're going to be all right. It's going to be good. Okay. Well, we'll dwell on that.
Will Betts:
We can come back to that, yeah.
Chris Barker:
But we'll say the CS-80 for now, and then we'll see when we get to the end of the list, when Will does the run-down.
Will Betts:
But before we get onto the next one, can we talk a little bit about the CS-80 in your own work, and the emulations that you use? Are you using that in the current record? Have you used that in the past? Can you tell us about a specific example of when that's featured?
Mason:
I don't recall, really. I recorded everything into audio at some point, and just mixed for the last months. So, what it was initially, I never know any more.
Chris Barker:
Is that usually your process then? Are you committing to audio pretty fast?
Mason:
Well, the way I work is I demo a lot. Like, shitloads. Sometimes I have these weeks where I do a demo an hour. And then I have, at the end of the day, eight demos. Or, eight Logic files, eight MP3s. And at the end of the week, 40. And after two weeks, 100, let's say. And then I only finish one, because I think you want to wait until you have the right idea. And to finish a track is a linear process. You can do that with any track. But if it's not the right idea ... But it does mean that the creative part on actually writing the notes and stuff is usually from ages ago. Also for this album, I just went back to listen to these hundreds of demos from a certain year, and just tried to find best bits. Sometimes, people say, "So, how do you create this bit?" Yeah, it was from demo week number blah, blah, blah.
Chris Barker:
That's an interesting process, though. I don't think I've heard that before. It's that idea of get quantity to find the quality. Not quantity over quality, but you have to just keep doing-
Mason:
Yeah. I mean, the majority's crap. The majority is total, utter crap. I saw in my hard drive there are between eight and 9,000 now. And most of it is crappy. But I think also, it's good to train it, to keep on writing. Because I think it's like a muscle. You need to write, and then once in a while, something good comes along. Hopefully.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, for sure.
Mason:
But I think if you just start on a track and then all the way til you finish it, you're selling yourself short, really. Because there could be a better idea coming by next.
Will Betts:
How much are you actually making for each one of these tracks? How long are these? Is it like a 16-bar loop? Or is it-
Mason:
Yeah. It's usually. Sometimes there is an A and a B part, or something. But usually it's like a loop. Yeah, a melody or a sample idea, or a bass line idea, or a drum idea, or something like that.
Will Betts:
So, it can start from any one of these places, and then-
Mason:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Do you just follow it as it goes? Or do you hit an hour and go, "Okay, on to the next one"? How does that work?
Mason:
Yeah. At some point, I think, "Okay. It's time now to save it and create a next one." And it's really a tough process, because it's not fun to every time start from scratch with an empty page. It's easier to just keep on working on something, because then there are a lot of things you can do on a track. To create something, it really sucks. But for me, I think it's the best way to work. Yeah. And then I have my own systems. It's all super geeky, but I have my own systems of going back through certain periods and then recycling stuff. Okay, the folders of drums that I can reuse, and folders of vocals, and folders of melodies. And then a lot of times, it's also a mixture of a few different demos from the past.
Will Betts:
Right. How do you actually label this stuff up, then? If you've got so much material, that must be a problem, searching through all of it.
Mason:
Yeah. There was a time when I was numbering them, but that's just horrible, because then your whole computer is filled with three five eight. And then I went into geography. Without taking a book, I did all the cities I knew from head around the world. And then all the countries, and then all the rivers. That took me few years of demoing, I think. Like, a few hundred. There must be 1,000 demos or something with every town or forest or country or river.
Chris Barker:
This is so great, though. You're going to have these periods like old-fashioned painters do. It's like, "Oh, this is Mason's river period."
Mason:
Exactly, yeah.
Chris Barker:
"He was very numerical at this point." It's going to be great.
Mason:
Yeah. I moved onto daily objects now, since last two years. I think this last period was very much first bathroom, and then moving to the bedroom. I had kitchen already, with every, single kitchen utensil.
Will Betts:
Hang on. Wait, wait, wait. You're not using, say, a fork as inspiration. But after you've finished it, you say, "This is my fork piece."
Mason:
Yeah. But you get these really ridiculous situations where you saving a file and it says, "Corkscrew.logic is already being used," kind of deal.
Chris Barker:
You've already been through that part of the cutlery drawer, or whatever. Yeah.
Mason:
Exactly, yeah.
Chris Barker:
"Slightly larger pan."
Mason:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
What are some of your favourite utensils?
Mason:
It's in Dutch, by the way, as well. I can still sometimes reuse those titles and send them to a label, because they find it super arty-sounding, while it's actually saying, "Corkscrew," or something. Corkscrew in Dutch is schroevendraaier, so it sounds pretty techno.
Chris Barker:
Is that where we get the word screwdriver from, maybe? Must be.
Mason:
Oh yeah. [foreign language 00:30:42], yeah.
Chris Barker:
Must be.
Chris Barker:
Possibly, yeah.
Chris Barker:
That's what we do in English, isn't it? We just steal all of the stuff from all the other languages.
Will Betts:
Have you got onto food items yet? Because one of my favourite Dutch words is stroopwafel.
Mason:
Stroopwafel. No. But it's a good idea, actually, to ... Afterwards, I can also. I mean, I can still go the animal route at some point, and planets. Or, that's a bit short, I guess.
Chris Barker:
Or biscuits, like the new album.
Mason:
True. Yeah. True, true.
Chris Barker:
Biscuit-based.
Will Betts:
Was that from your kitchen period?
Mason:
No. I mean, at the minute, I'm in bathroom. But I still reuse a lot of old demos. Some are even still cities.
Chris Barker:
Oh, okay. The album is a mixture of all of these things?
Mason:
Yeah. I think Cincinnati is on there. A few of these things.
Chris Barker:
And do they ever retain their name to release? Or do they get changed later on?
Mason:
Occasionally, yeah. Occasionally, I think.
Chris Barker:
I'm going to look for this now. I'm going to look through your discography and be like-
Mason:
Yeah. Let me have a look myself, actually. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
I mean, Cincinnati sounds cool, actually, as a name, doesn't it? That's a good name for a track.
Mason:
Exactly.
Will Betts:
Chihuahua. Surely, Chihuahua.
Mason:
Сhihuahua, yeah. And I did capybara as well. I did my share of animals, yeah.
Will Betts:
Animals.
Mason:
I actually did animals already. Yeah, you're right. Shit.
Chris Barker:
Once you've labelled everything on Earth, that's going to be the end of your career. Once there's no objects left for demos.
Mason:
Yeah. I got two sons, and at some point I'm going to die and they need to ... Maybe not. Maybe they'll still just throw away this super Mac Pro. But maybe, they'll go through it and then they'll have to, "What the fuck do we do with this, man?"
Chris Barker:
Amazing. A vault.
Mason:
And I actually have to say, my father is an artist. A painter and sculpture and stuff. I guess when he passes away, I also need to go through his cabinets of paintings, and just "What is this shit?"
Chris Barker:
His legacy, man.
Mason:
Yeah. You'll feel guilty to throw it away. Or at least my kids can just save it on a USB drive and just leave it somewhere.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. Well, at that point they'll be just saving it to their implant in their head or something. They'll just-
Mason:
And once in a while, they have to listen to Cincinnati.
Chris Barker:
Where are we up to, Will? Are we choosing number five?
Will Betts:
Okay. We're onto number five.
Chris Barker:
Item number five, what do you need? You've got to have a microphone, right? Microphone? Do you do vocals in there?
Mason:
Yeah, I suppose so. But I don't do it that often. I mean, a lot of it is also done in different studios and around the world, and yadda, yadda, yadda. I think probably if I'm on my own there, I guess it's me on this desert island fancy studio, right?
Chris Barker:
It's not a desert island. You're in Amsterdam in a fire station.
Mason:
Oh okay, so artists can come by and stuff?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Mason:
Oh, okay. Okay, okay, okay. We're good. Well, I still might just start off with a compressor, maybe.
Chris Barker:
Okay. Hardware? External?
Mason:
Yeah, for sure. For sure, for sure.
Chris Barker:
What are you thinking? Are you going vintage, modern?
Mason:
I'm thinking maybe the Tube-Tech SMC-2B mastering version, maybe.
Chris Barker:
Nice. Is that the blue thing? Yes, I know the one.
Mason:
Yeah. The one that's like double price because it's the mastering version. That one. Well, it's Tube. But it's a multiband compressor.
Chris Barker:
Oh, a multiband. Okay. That would be for mastering? Or would you use that ... I guess you could use it on channels as well, couldn't you?
Mason:
Yeah. I guess for mastering. I'm doing a lot more these days, big part of mastering. And I use a lot of analogue compressors and EQs and stuff these days.
Chris Barker:
But you don't have the Tube-Tech in your studio right now. So this would be-
Mason:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Level up.
Mason:
Yeah. I need everything to be level up compared to what I have now.
Will Betts:
You're doing the mastering yourself, you say. But are you also doing the mixing? And then you're doing the mastering following? Or are you doing it all in one process?
Mason:
Well, I do majority of the mastering. I still send it to an engineer, but most case, he doesn't need to do too much apart from upping the level. Yeah. I really enjoy to get my own sound. And I think with dance music, the mixdown is so much part of the actual track. Like, a few times I had in the past where it was a big commercial rerecord or something, someone else did the mixdown then, at the end. Even if it's just stem-mix mastering. And man, it was every time, like total war with me.
Will Betts:
Really?
Mason:
It just doesn't go well with me. And straight, I get something back, and I get angry. And it's just ... I think, yeah. You just need to make electronic music artists ... Or at least in my case, I just need to do that stuff myself. Even if I'm not brilliant at it, but at least it's my identity or something.
Chris Barker:
Yeah. I guess like you say, the mix is the stamp of the sound of your track. It's not like they're trying to reveal a song, as such. It's like, the song is the sound, isn't it?
Mason:
Totally, yeah. I want to do all that stuff myself, and not having ... Say with a mastering engineer, I don't want them to do too much. I don't want them to put multiband compressors and change the whole balance of the sound. I want to do all the stuff here.
Will Betts:
But I guess you've been doing this for long enough that you know what your sound is, and you know how it's going to translate when it's played out and that kind of thing.
Mason:
Yeah. Although, I also realise I'm not as good as some of those other guys at that. But I still want to do it myself.
Chris Barker:
Item number six, then, now. The final item. Final studio item, anyway. Studio kit.
Mason:
I think I'll go for software. I think I would find it hard to make music without a FabFilter Q 3.
Will Betts:
Interesting. You're not the first person to have said that, actually, just recently.
Mason:
Oh yeah?
Will Betts:
Yeah. This is a very popular choice.
Chris Barker:
Which is testament to how good it must be, because a lot of people would be satisfied with Logic's built-in stuff when they're put in this position. That's very good. When did you discover the Q 3? I guess there's been Q 1s and Q 2s, right?
Mason:
Yeah, and I had those and used them very occasionally. But I think last, I don't know, one or two years, I really got into depth of all the possibilities of Q 3, and it's just amazing. And the sound is so much better, and the possibilities. You can do dynamic EQ, and you can compare different tracks. Every Q 3 in your session, you can compare them with each other so you can see the wave form of different sound on certain channels, see where frequencies clash. And the sound is so good, you have different algorithms, how to have it sound. It's just amazing, I think. It can be surgical, it can have colour.
Chris Barker:
I guess it's a great tool without looking at clashes between the kick and bass, that classic dance music scenario of making sure that they've both got their own space without having to duck everything all the time. You can-
Mason:
Yeah. I used to work with Voxengo SPAN. Do you know that one?
Chris Barker:
Yes. Yes.
Mason:
I had my template kicks always going to Voxengo SPAN, and bass always go to Voxengo SPAN. And then you can compare the two. But in Q 3, you can do that as well. So, sorry, SPAN. You're out.
Will Betts:
We noticed that actually there's no software instruments at all in your setup. Is that going to be a problem? Or are you going to use all of the Logic stock instruments?
Mason:
Yeah. Because then you have to take one, otherwise I'm getting your bundle jingle again. And then Logic's alchemy is pretty good, I think. I never hear of people praising it. I think it's pretty seen to be praised.
Chris Barker:
Will, do you want to run down the list, so we have so far? And then you can see if you want any changes, or whether we want to finish up with a luxury item. So, picture the scene.
Will Betts:
We're in a fire station in Amsterdam with loads of natural daylight, smelling mildly of the smoke of an old bar. We're working on a fully-loaded Mac Pro with wheels, using Logic Pro X. The interface is a Metric Halo ULN-8, and in your studio you are sitting in front of an SSL AWS 948, listening on ATC SCM110 soffit-mounted speakers. You're leaning over to the side, tickling the ivories on a restored Fender Rhodes with MIDI-enabled ... What are we calling that? That's a retro-
Chris Barker:
MIDI-kit. Yeah.
Will Betts:
MIDI-kit, yeah. You have either a Yamaha CS-80 or a Moog One. Pick now.
Mason:
CS-80.
Will Betts:
Done. Sorry, a Tube-Tech SMC 2BM mastering compressor, and on your computer you have FabFilter Pro-Q 3 as your additional plug-in. How does that sound?
Mason:
It sounds awesome. It sounds awesome. It sounds the rest of my career.
Will Betts:
Are you missing anything?
Mason:
That's the thing, right? I think five years ago, I still thought, or 10 years ago, like, "Maybe in a few years, I'm going to do something else. Become a manager, or work for a record label. Whatever." You know? Something in the music industry. But I slowly start to realise, I'm 40 now. And my career's going really well, actually. Without patting myself on the back, but it's just going well. And so there's slowly this realisation, I'm going to be doing this probably til my pension. This is going to be it. Which means, I'm sitting on this one chair in one square metre for the rest of my 20 years. It might as well be this dream studio you guys are talking about, because you would sell yourself short not to. If you have to spend the rest of your year in this one square metre, it better be a fucking awesome square metre, right?
Chris Barker:
Exactly. 100%.
Will Betts:
Speaking of which, you've got a luxury item remaining. What's going to make it more dreamy for you?
Chris Barker:
What's one thing you need in the studio that isn't studio kit?
Mason:
Most definitely, a coffee machine. I'm one of these junkies. I don't have many addictions, but this is seriously one of them. I have really good, high-quality espresso machine at home and in studio. And they both have time locks, how do you say? Time, electricity thingies, on WiFi, so that if you change your rhythm and you're going to go all of a sudden at different time to studio, you can already heat them up, on remote, with app. This is true.
Chris Barker:
This is cool. Tell us about this. What's the model, though? People are going to want to know this. They're going to want it for their studio. What's the model of the machine?
Mason:
At the minute, I have the VBM Domobar, but I might as well, while we're at it, take an upgrade, right?
Chris Barker:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you already know your luxury, dream coffee machine, then we want to upsell.
Mason:
Yeah. Yeah. I think I'll go for the Alex Duetto II.
Will Betts:
Oh, I've Googled this. And one of the top suggestions is Alex Duetto II Safety Valve. Sounds like somebody's had some issues with the Alex Duetto II. You want to be careful.
Mason:
The other weekend, I was just really being a bitch at home. And at some point on Sunday, my wife said, "What the actual fuck is going on?" And then it turned out I was drinking decaf for two days. And I just couldn't function. I'd been only swearing. And I know you guys have it in the UK, but this Mars commercial where a guy, if he didn't have a Mars, he's exactly like that. It's that bad.
Will Betts:
You're not yourself when you've not-
Chris Barker:
When you're hungry. It's like you were hungry, but hungry for caffeine. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. I've done that with ... I've got just a Nespresso thing, but where it was accidentally the decaf capsules that I'd bought. And yeah, just constantly having them, like, "Why is it not working?"
Mason:
Exactly. And people know that I'm a bit of a coffee addict, so they make the mistake of giving me bags of beans for birthdays and stuff like that. Which is really bad idea to give to a coffee addict, because I'm obviously super specific in what kind of coffee I like. I kind of, "Hey, thanks," and then when they leave, I throw them away or I give them to my neighbour or something.
Chris Barker:
Tell us the super specific beans.
Will Betts:
Yeah. What do you need?
Mason:
Well, I guess what's trendy these days is very fresh roasted, a bit sour espressos. I only drink espresso. But I don't really like that. So, that already cancels out 75% of all the trendy Amsterdam coffee places. I like dark roasted, and more Italian, Napolitani kind of ... It's more on the bitter side, less on the sour side.
Chris Barker:
Man, what is it with DJs and coffee? All my years interviewing people ... I guess it's just being in the studio all day.
Will Betts:
Late nights.
Chris Barker:
You just get into it.
Mason:
Yeah. Or just the sleep deprivation from Djing.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, from flights and jet lag and yeah. Nice. We've got the luxury Alex Duetto II, right? Check Alex Duetto II coffee machine.
Mason:
I think there's a version with leather.
Will Betts:
Correct.
Mason:
Which could-
Chris Barker:
Leather?
Mason:
Yeah. Like, leather handles and stuff. Which could be good for the whole look we're ... You know?
Chris Barker:
Yeah.
Will Betts:
Yeah. Maybe the leather that smells a bit smoky as well, just to keep adding to that.
Mason:
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Lovely. Right. So, that's your forever studio, man. And just tell us about the album. Is the album out now, or is it coming out? When can we hear the-
Mason:
Yeah. The album is basically out now. It's called Frisky Biscuits. It's out on Toolroom, and it's on all the usual places, like Spotify, yadda, yadda. I can give you guys a sales pitch why you should listen, but I don't bother. Just listen, and hopefully you guys like it. And if not, well. Bad luck.
Chris Barker:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us on this. I hope you had fun. We did.
Will Betts:
So much.
Chris Barker:
And being on the My Forever Studio Podcast.
Mason:
Yeah. When do I get the keys?
Will Betts:
We'll have our people talk to your people. Yeah.
Chris Barker:
Oh, yeah. Well, we'll send some guys round with the keys. And, yeah. They'll arrive by submarine. You'll notice them.
Mason:
Yeah. They'll first have to kick out a few fire commanders. I hope they're strong enough.
Will Betts:
Shouldn't be a problem.
Chris Barker:
Yeah, nice. Thank you very much. Take care, man.
Mason:
All right. Ciao.
Will Betts:
Thank you, Mason.